How can we ensure the prophetic movement in the church remains a force for good – a beacon of unity and hope? Join us on a fascinating journey as we uncover the answers. Hear me, Amanda Hill, Ned Maraman, Francisco Vega, Wayland Henderson, and Elizabeth Tiam-Fook talk about the purpose and future of the prophetic movement. We embark on a deep exploration of the prophetic movement – we question its roots, reason, and future trajectory.

Simultaneously, we bravely face the errors that we must right, and the elements we must protect and cherish. The spirit of community is the lifeblood of the prophetic movement. Our conversation underscores the importance of unity and the necessity of diverse gifts among prophetic leaders.

We lay bare the critical importance of prophetic purity and the non-negotiable need for accuracy and integrity in the prophetic voice. Taking a detour into the realm of leadership, we emphasize the need for leaders to be firmly rooted in a New Testament, ancient Christian environment.

We warn against the disruptive spirit of Leviathan that can sow seeds of division and accusation in the community. We engage in a spirited debate on the role of prophets in contemporary times. How can they effectively foster unity and continuity?

We also warn against the traps of popularity and the need to balance prophetic power with practicality. We shine a light on the dark corners of spiritual abuse by leaders, and the urgent need for fruit to match the gift. Prepare to be enlightened about the prophetic movement in the church, the challenges it faces, and the solutions we propose.

Where to dive in:

(0:00:09) – Prophetic Movement

We discuss the prophetic movement, its purpose, and its future, with a panel of guests from diverse backgrounds.

(0:03:36) – Building Family in the Prophetic

We discuss division, accusation, family, strength, and Tammy’s story of suffering.

(0:19:11) – Prophetic Purity and Leadership Mishandling

Pursuing prophetic purity, holiness, accuracy, integrity, and practicality in the prophetic movement.

(0:28:58) – Maintaining Community Amidst Differences

Fostering unity in the prophetic movement, celebrating roles, assignments and gifts, breaking down schisms, stewarding and training God’s people, and loving one another.

(0:34:35) – Leadership, Prophets, and Shepherd Hearts

Leadership, identity in Christ, acceleration, spiritual abuse, fruit, trust, and wrong narrative discussed in prophetic movement.

(0:46:35) – Discovery and Integrity of Prophetic Gifts

We examine qualifications, integrity, holiness, Leviathan, and the fear of the Lord.

(0:50:38) – Role of Prophets in Modern Times

We discuss God’s protection, unity, continuity, qualifications, and protection from Leviathan.

About the host:

Tammie Southerland is the host of Burning Messengers and the author of Permission To Bur: Breaking the Chains of Compromise from a Holy Generation. She is also a speaker and prophetic minister. She releases the sound authentic of revival and messages from heaven as she travels. Her lifestyle is one of prayer and digging deep into the Word of God, her desire is to releasing the Heart of The Father in these last days. She moves in power ministry and is known for releasing the Matthew 3:11 “baptism of Holy Fire” as she goes. ⁠Buy

Tammie’s Book “Permission to Burn: Breaking the Chains of Compromise from a Holy Generation” here⁠: ⁠⁠


0:00:09 – Speaker 2
God is doing so much. We’ve entered in this new season and I these are some of the most amazing voices are on the forefront of what God’s doing, and so what we want to do is we want to talk tonight. First, you know, why did God create the prophetic movement, what’s the purpose in the church? But also we want to talk about the future of the prophetic movement. What are some maybe errors that we need to come in as mothers and fathers for the next generation and kind of come around and say, hey, this can be corrected and or like, what do we carry on? What do we correct? So we’re going to talk about some deep things, we’re going to talk about relational things tonight, and so let’s start with Amanda Hill. Let’s introduce everyone, everyone introduce yourself, tell where, where you’re from and what you do.

0:00:53 – Speaker 3
I’m Amanda Hill. I live outside Chawston, south Carolina. Everybody want to make fun because I said Chawston instead of Charleston. I travel itinerantly. Amanda Hill dot org. I have two amazing children. We live on a hundred acre family farm and it’s not as glorious and glamorous as it seems. It’s a lot of hard work but we are grateful for the blessing of a farm during the season and I’m happy to be here. Thanks, elizabeth.

0:01:25 – Speaker 4
I’m Ned Merriman. I pastor locally here at Vision Church, fort Walton Beach. I also travel and minister mostly on the prophetic. I have a new book on evangelism coming out here very soon. I have six kids. I have six kids, waylon, I’m tired. I’ve been tired for a long time. I have six amazing kids, a wonderful wife, lacey Merriman. So just happy to be a part of this panel.

0:01:48 – Speaker 5
That’s a hoop squad with a six man in the week. Thanks for being here, elizabeth and everybody. My name is Waylon Henderson. I am a pastor and apostolic leader at the Gathering Kingdom Center in Arlington, texas. We travel nationally, internationally, with crusades, discipling pastors to begin to step into what team ministry looks like, and one of our most things we do is drive the concept and understanding and importance of intercession in the body.

0:02:17 – Speaker 1
Yeah, so I’m Tammy Sutherland. I am in love with Jesus. I have three beautiful girls and I’ve been married for 20 years, my husband Damon. We live in the Atlanta Georgia area. I travel it tenorately. I love to hear what the Lord is saying and speak what he’s saying in the hour that he’s speaking it and really for me that message always goes boils back down to his return and intercession. It’s one of my passions is really teaching people how to hear from him and to really fall in love with who he is and fall in love with this word. So really appreciate being here and, yeah, that’s it.

0:02:59 – Speaker 6
Hey, my name is Frankie Vega. I actually pastor the Ark, which is the Awakening of Reformation Center in Atlanta, Georgia, and we also have an itinerant ministry, Spirit and Truth Ministries International. Been married for 12 years, three beautiful kids my beautiful wife Oshia should be watching Lovey Baby and our heart is really just releasing agents of awakening and releasing a new roar of Reformation and rebuilding the old waste places according to Isaiah 58 and 12. And we’re so honored to be here with you, Elizabeth.

0:03:31 – Speaker 2
Yeah, so I want to. I want to open up. We are going to get deep, but let’s get ankle deep first. Okay, so I had this vision at the beginning of September and in the vision the Lord showed me like this iceberg and I in the iceberg, I saw, like people that I knew, people I didn’t know on this iceberg, and the Lord was giving them a decision to make whether they wanted to move with the new, what he was going to do or stay with old mindsets and stay with what they thought was the new. And all of a sudden I saw the Lord’s hand go in and he split, which I thought was one iceberg is two. And so I saw I actually saw people I knew go on the old because they thought we’ve always done it this way, so this is the way we’ll always do it. But then I saw God going with the people that wanted to move with him and it really concerned me. It actually made my heart sad because I knew some of the people that wanted to stay with old mindsets and I think the church has stepped in such a new place. I feel like I feel like they’re young leaders maybe younger leaders I should say that God has put on the forefront and he’s mantled them to help lead the church right now.

And so, with the in the middle of this, I’m watching divine order that God’s doing, but at the same time I’m seeing this covenant breaking spirit come in and trying to break so many relationships in the church between generations, and I’m like there’s this war on and there’s this intercession that’s happening in the body.

And you know, it’s one thing if God’s sword comes to the to move people to different places. It’s a different thing when a covenant breaking spirit comes into play and the wickedness that goes with a covenant breaking spirit. So, tammy, why don’t I start with you in this? You, you have the mic there and why don’t we start with you? Let’s talk about, like, some of the things maybe you’re seeing, and how can we intercession wise, fight for the relationships, because we are a family in the body, right Moving forward. If we don’t understand the family thing, the enemy is going to keep overcoming us. We’re not going to have the strength of unity. So let’s talk about you know, I know you’re writing a book that’s about to come out on the ground what let’s talk about intercession, relationships and kind of like where you see God’s doing in the body.

0:05:51 – Speaker 1
Absolutely so. One of the things that we’ve been talking about recently is is the table. So, you know, there’s this intersection between the tabernacle and the tables. The tabernacle would be your tabernacle. In with the Lord, you’re sitting with him, you’re in intercession with him, and this covenant breaking spirit that you’re talking about is actually, you know, if you look at the scriptures, it’s the spirit of Leviathan. It’s what it is a spirit of accusation, is a spirit of division, and it’s actually ripping apart the body of Christ from the inside out, because it uses lies and intimidation in order to bring division right and so that the reality that we are in a body in intercession right, we’re called to sit with him in heavenly realms. We’re called to hear what he’s saying and what he’s doing, getting divine strategy from heaven.

Intercession is important, not because we have a gift of intercession, but we’re called to be intercessors who were seated with Christ in heavenly places, getting divine intelligence, and so if we can’t hear what he’s saying, then we can’t do what he’s doing, and so so we’re tabernacling with him, right, we’re invited into that place, and then the secondary place is that place of the table, and so you’re seated with him and we’re seated together and one of the parts of this Reformation is that God’s shifting us from doing platform ministry, where it’s about building a organization, back to the place of family, where it’s building an organism. And so if we’re not living in the place of intercession, we’re not living in the place of hearing what he’s saying, doing what he’s doing and meeting with one another around the table, then obviously the enemy has a has leeway to get in and bring accusation and vision.

0:07:39 – Speaker 2
Yeah, let’s, let’s say this really quick, so it’s really important. I know it’s kind of like I talk about this a lot about the company of profits. God made profit so special and we need each other. And I know, I know there was like some things that got in the body and the generation above us like who has the better word. You know, these things have really caused a spirited division to be attached to it and so you don’t, you don’t want to sit around being accountable to each other. You don’t want to sit around because you feel like there’s competitive spirit between us.

But if we’re really going to do this as profits, let’s pull out into the profits. I know that’s a niche towards the body, but with within the prophetic movement, profits are so special. We actually really need each other and so let’s talk about that. And then maybe I think Amanda would be really good on this Sorry, guys, I’m kind of skipping over to the she’ll be a really good one on answering that. So how important it is for profits to really understand how we need each other this season.

0:08:38 – Speaker 3
I can speak from this very personally. June 18 of this year, which was Father’s Day, my husband of 25 years went home to be with the Lord and it has been one of the most difficult seasons of suffering that I’ve ever endured in my life. I’ve buried a child, and so this is, it’s grueling right, and having a company I want to say I don’t want to say company, I want to say family. Having a family that will actually weep when you weep and Sit with you when you want to sit and talk, when you want to talk or laugh when you want to laugh it.

There’s been a very big line of demarcation in my own life regarding boundaries of those who have invested themselves in within my groaning, my grieving, my morning experience and in the prophetic streams and the prophetic friends that I have. The Lord has been. He’s been Helping me understand who’s my seven. When I say that, I mean like who’s gonna sit with me, who’s gonna be with me? And like Jesus, he had Mary, he had Martha, he had Lazarus, he considered them friends, he had his mother and then he had the three disciples, and so I think for me, the family and the prophetic family that’s gathered around me In this moment of suffering.

It’s deepened our relationship and you know there’s been some that I haven’t heard from, and that’s okay, right, but the family that has been birthed through this time of mourning of mine, it has really deepened the relationship. And so you know Tammy had a situation with her daughter and and we had a group page of some of the prophetic voices and we were contending with her and contending for her. And when you have that family, that that when you go through hard times, it builds trust, it builds relationship, it builds perseverance, it builds a grit inside of you. That I, when, when my husband got the diagnosis, a friend of mine, she texts me and she said your battle is my battle and We’ve not done that very well in the prophetic and I feel like that, our generation, we are getting back to the place where kingdom really is family.

0:11:17 – Speaker 2
So good, yeah, ned, you know how. How would you speak to someone that is maybe say they’re 20 years old in the prophetic and they’re starting Not to put platform before building the family within the prophetic?

0:11:34 – Speaker 4
Yeah, I would say To be humble and Recognize that, especially that that age, you’re going through such rapid change that the issue is not so much can I receive revelation? In reality, I think we’ve been around this enough to know that it’s. It’s really Not unusual for a below, for a spirit-filled believer to receive revelation. It’s how do I steward that, how do I interpret that and how do I release it? And Are there any relational guards on those processes? In my life I find when a lot of. Let me how?

I say this we have a very hyper sovereign View that’s subconscious, of prophetic revelation. We don’t understand how much synergy there is between I, the person God created in his image and likeness, and what the spirit is releasing, and 50 in the especially early and younger. We’re so excited that we receive the revelation. We cannot possibly imagine our interpretation being any less accurate than the revelation we received, and Realizing this will me. Let me say this we are, we live in a hyper individualistic culture which is really in a. It’s a it’s. It’s a bubble that was formed post Reformation, coming into the enlightenment and what we see as them as, as Liberalism shaped in the 18th century, and now that actually pervades all of culture, and so we actually do not understand how to interact as a community or family because we’re so focused on the individual.

Most people, when they receive revelation, the first thing I think is God is elevating me.

Not that God wants to serve a people, and this is a means by which he’s graced me to serve a body so that the whole Grows together in love and grows into the, the, the fullness in the stature of Christ Jesus, according to Ephesians 4, so that, especially in the modern West, the need for discipleship and the need to understand that we as a body whether you take the label of prophet, the title of prophet or not we are a people of revelation and so when we under let me say this I don’t want to diminish Revelation as special, but I do want to introduce humility that says that Just because I’m receiving you, although I esteem that revelation, let’s understand that I’m stewarding it and I don’t necessarily rise with that word, but I it’s, it’s brought together to to serve a company, to serve a body.

So in reality, I’d say this is Get discipled, be a part of a body that believes in accountability and takes growing in the word of God Seriously and understanding the history that the word emerges from and the people that the word emerges from. Because where we have issued today and I’ll kind of wrap up with this is we actually don’t have a vision for continuity. Going back to the Exodus, we see breaks where God sees continuity and we need to reclaim our history.

0:15:20 – Speaker 2
So good, well, wayland, let me ask you this. There too, there are two things we want to kind of play up. That is two questions I have for you because you’re really smart. So so one of them is I someone told me this let’s I mean none of us are afraid to talk about the elections. I know it’s kind of the elephant in a room certain places. I don’t mind talking about it, because how do we fix things unless we talk about it, right? So Someone told me, a prophet told me that only prophets number one question for you only prophets should correct prophets, or let’s allow it you to worse correct, but Maybe that’s the right word, but you, you can take it from there on that one.

The second question is how important is it for the in this season for apostles and prophets to run together? Because I had, I had a prophet Well, there are a few that I’m actually having a apostle and prophets meeting in Dallas this year and usually just do prophets, but we are adding like full apostles to come to it and I’ve had more pushback from the prophets and I have the apostles about coming. The apostles are, yeah, we need to gather with the prophets and the prophets are like hey, some, not all, are saying hey, why, why do you need to invite the apostles to come? So like are those two really good questions for you?

0:16:35 – Speaker 5
Yes, those are really good ones, I’d say for one, the beauty of team ministry that should be demonstrated by apostles and prophets actually lays a plumb line of accountability. And a lot of times, if you’re not willing to allow the word that you receive to be tested because we are human and that word first has to be taken and processed through the humanness of who we are in order for us to be a witness of that, and you have to allow that word to be judged. And when you have apostles and prophets coming together, even every apostle and prophet doesn’t have the same type of personality, because we’re all called to something different. And if our goal is for Christ to be glorified and for the beauty of the witness of the cross of Christ to be seen, then there has to be a level of humility and submission, because it’s not about me being right, it’s about the nature of Christ being represented accurately. And when we have a prophetic person who was willing to do that, it doesn’t matter who brings judgment, because you are willing to allow that word to be judged, because it’s not about whether I’m off. If you’re really prophetic, you don’t care about being off, you care about the Lord being seen rightly. And when you start seeing apostles and prophets come together. That is the foundation of community.

Because if you look at Paul, paul says that the foundation of the church is the apostles and prophets, jesus Christ, being achieved cornerstone.

So if that analogy of a cornerstone is a building that begins to be set at this foundation, so when shaking comes it will not be removed. So apostles and prophets are similar in one thing that they both give witness to Jesus. And I believe it’s connected from the prophets of the Old Testament, the apostles of the Lamb, that the post ascension or ascension gifts of the apostle and the prophet begin to speak from the same foundation. And the same foundation includes that there was team ministry and unity together. So when you get those two gifts that come together, it actually begins to set the stage for what Ephesians 4 is talking about is that we all grow up into the headship of the sun. So humility, I would say, is the first thing, and having a cross shaped perspective where you desire to be self emptying, self giving and self pouring out. Because if you’re going to be a leader, whether it’s a possible prophet, but essentially if you are apostolic and prophetic, you have to embody the message that you receive. So it’s not what you say, it’s where you say it from.

0:19:42 – Speaker 2
So wow, I told you guys he was smart.

Okay so so let’s go to Frankie here. So, frankie, you know you live in the atl right and so I remember we came to do we prophesy there and I remember the Lord started to speak to me when I was coming to Atlanta and it kind of scared me the word, but he started to speak to me about Eli. Okay, let’s talk about purity in the prophetic and like and like how that impacts the body, how it impacts the prophetic movement. When you have too much is the word unholiness, or when we we’re not putting holiness unto the Lord or the fear of the Lord in our lives as the forefront of that, we’re letting our gift. Is that a good question for you? You go where I’m going? Okay, all right, we’ll let you answer that.

0:20:38 – Speaker 6
No, so it’s very. It’s a great passion of mine prophetic purity, because I think people have become office obsessed so much that they’re losing the purity of the function and how prophet is more nature driven than it is just gift driven. So there’s got to be a function in that and I feel like when you see things like Haphneus and Phineas offering strange fire, you see things like like the sons of Eli and you see the stiff neckness of an Eli, you see an entire prophetic paradigm of God saying I need purity within a prophetic movement and a voice so that that can be spiritually a succession that goes down generation, generation. I feel like the Lord is purifying the prophetic when it comes to things like accuracy, when it comes to things like integrity, when it comes to things like an accuracy involves biblical exposition, not just supernatural encounters and experiences. It has to be that we’re never going to prophesy out of a polluted well or polluted paradigm that we’re never going to manufacture manifestation is going to be something genuinely that comes from a place of intimacy and saying from a pure heart, because I think too many times a generation we’re in that sight and sound generation in this IG generation of just cultivating likes and followership versus following Jesus. And there’s a lot of gimmicks.

Personally, presently, in many of, at least I’ll say, some of the younger generation that’s coming up, we have to be careful with gimmicks. We have to be careful with just trying to pose as powerful but losing the purity of that office and I think the problem with that becomes that we can fall into it. Jesus talks about Mark chapter and the lust of other things and when you look in the scriptures it’s the the lust of other things. On the four types of ground can the enemy can come and destroy and take that word away. I think one of those lusts that we have to be careful with is prophetic power at times, because the nature of our character fuels the charismatic, fuels, our ability to move into gifts or to project a sense of powerfulness. But that’s something that I’ve been kind of teaching in our local church a little bit, because I’m a pastoral prophet, I’m having to function in both worlds. But it’s help temper my prophetic with practicality, like how can we love the prophetic but present in a way that builds a local church where we’re not just blessing prophets, like prophet Kevin has poured that into me. Prophet Kevin Leo is one of my mentors. He said, frankie, don’t be a blessing prophet, be a building prophet. How do you have your tethering, your gifts to the governmental great? A governmental grace is to establish foundations. The greatest foundation is the local church, local churches, local churches. That has to be so.

There’s almost like this way of the prophet in mind said that you see Jude prophesies about, they’ve gone by the way of Balaam and then by the way of cane, and can’s issue was that he didn’t. He didn’t in and he didn’t embrace accountability as part of being essential. God obviously communicated a purity and the sacrifice of in a presentation and he intentionally went around that. And then you see, the Holy Spirit prophesied through Jude that in the last days many will go by the way of Cain and really the biggest issue that that comes into when we’re not wanting to operate from a prophetic place of purity, is that we can become self-induced orphans. So now it’s no longer a wandering from a place of well, my anointing is so misunderstood and cannot be embraced and there’s no expansion for me in the local church. I think some of that masks itself from a place of rebellion and an inability to be planted and say all my grace, gifts and everything that I have is to not even just build up myself as a prophet or just other prophets and apostles, but to help build a governmental grace for sound and solid pastoring, sound and solid teaching. And that means I embrace accuracy, a heart for the loss and going out and having communal ministry.

That’s why Matthew 7,7, the Lord said that many will say in the last days we didn’t with you. All these great works, you know, we prophesied in your name, prophets prophesied. So that could be an innuendo toward we were prophets and we were accurate. And then he said we did many wonderful works. And the Bible says Jesus said and now professing to them be gone. For me I didn’t have, yadda, I didn’t have intimacy with you. So the key is with prophetic purity. Is our unction coming from a place of intimacy or is it coming from a place of just industry? We’re just moving by For follow ships and book sales and and platforms and multi-level market ministry mindsets. We’re not prophesying and loving the local church from a place of purity and intimacy. It’s just manufacturing things and I think that’s huge.

I want our generation, who generally have prophetic graces, to say hey, my gift grace, I don’t want to be a Matthew 7 7 prophet where the Lord says you did a lot of wonderful works but you were lawless. You practice anemia, you didn’t have any, you didn’t tether government, that governmental grace, you were not accountable, you were not integrity, you didn’t press. And also into accuracy, not just into unction, and I feel like that’s a major deal here and I hear that often when I go around and the Lord started telling me, said son, a lot of younger prophets need that fathering, they need the apostles, they also need pastors, teachers, they need, they need a convergence of the full, of the, of the true, faithful ministry. So it tempers and balances us, because many of us are claiming that we’re being rejected or being mishandled but we refuse to honor other grace gifts and we have an orphan spirit and that needs to be healed and delivered. I think in the, in the Rising of the younger prophetic movement today.

0:26:16 – Speaker 2
Yeah, so we’ll kind of pass this on or maybe you guys can answer whoever fails to answer that. But all on talking, talking about this. But you know there’s a difference between what there’s lines of honor, like. We all believe in honor, everybody here believes in honor and we all honor the gifts and people around us. But we’re watching some well, you brought it up mishandling and and leadership.

One of the things I realized when I came into the prophetic movement is I was like you know, some of these prophets are some of the best prophets in the planet. Like my gosh, I’m not even one percent. You know like there’s some of the most amazing, but I realized some of them don’t have leadership gifts and what you do is you, when you can stand up and prophesy to a hundred people, but you come down a mistreat your staff, like there’s some things that really go off as alarms inside of me and I just I’m wondering with the if God is asking us to help keep building what he’s building in the kingdom. One of his things is he’s always says oh, these are my kids, don’t touch them, okay, so, so he’s always protective over the body. So what are some things? Maybe I can Start with you, frankie, and then just kind of pass it down, because this is a heavy topic right now, going on with the Mishandling of people under our care, and we just can’t throw it off with authoritarian type leadership, which is not kingdom leadership at all, where we just say you just do what I tell you do, or I’m gonna call you rebellious, you know? Or say what I say. There should be a giving and taking of a Relation, but I do understand honor on both sides need to be happening, because true covenant, true relationship, is two-sided right.

So I have been seen some mishandling of people where it’s not just a bad day but it’s bad leadership and so. So how do we move forward? Because there’s I’m not thinking of anyone in particular, I’m just talking about this is like something where the prophetic movement is going so fast. We’re building, everything’s being built and we have amazing people that pioneered and built it. But there’s some things that I’m watching come in About leadership that I think like if we’re gonna build the prophetic movement, one of the things that we’re doing it’s not just building profits but we’re actually adding in leadership into it. How do you? How do you do that? Because I don’t think in people’s heart. They on purpose maybe some to hurt people, but when you have bad leadership skills you end up hurting people. So let’s start with you, Frankie, and just kind of let’s do two minutes each and just go down and talk about you know, how do we, how do we fix some of this stuff going on with the mishandling of people?

0:28:58 – Speaker 6
One thing, I kind of scripture came to mind, and I believe this is the text of Romans, chapter 2 Is that, therefore, we have no excuse or defense or justification. Oh man, whoever you are, who judges and condemns another for imposing his judge and passing sentence on another, you condemn yourself because you, who judge, are habitually practicing the very same things that you censure and you denounce. And so it goes on even to say who are we to judge another man’s household servant? And so it literally says I believe that’s in Romans, and correct me guys, give me that text if you but he says it is before his Lord that he stands. So we have a communal mindset and I think some of that, we, we, there’s a little bit of a posturing at times and I feel like Because of that, it could, maybe it could come from a place of conceit or arrogance, with one, a acknowledgement of our giftings and our graces. But there’s there’s a community mindset that comes together. But there’s also this other side that says people have individual lanes of their calling and emphasis and it’s almost like because of that, sometimes people we want to censure and say well, that’s not the kind of prophet you need to be or the apostle you need to be. And then you, you kind of see a convergence.

When you look at this New Testament opening in the Gospels with John and Jesus, they seem like you’re contrasting and you even see the Seemed like you’re contrasting and you even had individuals trying to pit them against each other. You know, john did this and John did that. And then Jesus, instead of saying, of condemning John, he said what did you go to see? You know, just somebody in a beautiful palace and smooth. He said that’s for princess. He said you’re looking at a man who was a prophet, more than a prophet. So you, you got to have these contemporary mindset where John understood his role is to make the crooked straight and level out the prideful mountains and Jesus was there to receive people with open arms For salvation.

And I feel like there’s John and Jesus style ministries in the apostolic and prophetic community when we’re not supposed to be trying to censure and which actually creates this Schism in our ability to fellowship and community. But we need to say you’re different, god is having you speak something different, but you’re part of our community and we’re together and we’re one and I love that. You never see John condemning Jesus’s ministry, as different as they were in Jesus. Of course he’s God in human form, but he’s our example, not our exception. We don’t see him condemning John. He actually is publicly appraising and affirming John, though he’s different in his assignment, and I think some of that causes, uh, some schism in our inability to really maintain that community where we don’t celebrate the difference, we see differences, dysfunction and that creates a separation and a constant pushing away.

0:31:34 – Speaker 2
So how would you say that? I know we have to pass on the the, but, like, how would you say that, though, in a leadership point of view, with people, they’re stewarding under them? Because I think, like a parent, a parent Handles every child differently and stewards the call of God on their life. So, where a prophet may be, where I could be more of a John the Baptist, I, you have to steward me, different than someone that’s called to be, maybe, a governmental prophet. You know, like we’re gonna have different. How I’m built is different, how I, how I process is different, and so how do we make sure that, at the end of the day, love is our highest aim? Okay, at the end of the day. So why is there a mishandling of things? Um, I don’t know if you can say that in one minute or you need to pass, okay, all right.

0:32:25 – Speaker 6
I feel like there’s a difference between creating a clone and creating a disciple. So sometimes I feel like, because I have three kids and it’s very tempting to say, hey, I don’t want you to have any of my weaknesses, I want you to have all my strengths. But then sometimes we also Bicariously try to live through our kids. And if we didn’t go to the league, we want our kids Be a doctor and lawyer and I feel it. Part of that is our ability to Really Proverbs 22. It prophetically in verse 6 train up a child in the way that should go and win their old and want to part. And it literally means to To understand how God is molding. And I think that happens with prophets and ministry and itinerant gifts. They may not preach like you and prophesiality as long as they have the foundation of integrity and honor and they’re not breaking that pattern Biblically. We have to learn how to celebrate the difference of that.

0:33:14 – Speaker 7
Hey Burning Messenger. We want to interrupt today’s episode to remind you of Tammy’s book Permission to Burn. The book is her testimony on paper. She was on fire and never expected her life to demonstrate anything other than the zeal of God’s heart for his people. Tammy was going to change the world and see millions come to know her Jesus with the same passion and desire. Until the lies and obstacles begin.

Permission to Burn will take you on a journey of truth and release the weight of God’s glory and recommission the believer in Christ to live out his or her identity as a holy messenger. Awaken the courage to reclaim the undeniable truth amid a dangerously confused generation. Impart keys to living the holy, consecrated yet exhilarating, spirit-filled life. Call forth a scriptural plumb line of reformation to the modern church and leadership structure. Combine together hearts of seasoned leaders and young believers for a sustainable last day’s Holy Spirit outpouring. Read Permission to Burn. Get back on the mountain God gave you and take your place in setting this world on fire for the love of Jesus. In your generation you can find Permission to Burn, breaking the chains of compromise from a holy generation, on Amazon.

0:34:35 – Speaker 1
I want to jump into your point of being a prophet or apostle and a leader. And how do we steward the hearts of people well, if I’m understanding the question right, when it may not necessarily be our natural gift, bend In that. What I’m thinking is that even it goes back to the community side of things and the team ministry, team leadership. But as one that I’m probably more of a John the Baptist type, that’s probably more of my bend, that doesn’t give me an excuse to not seek after a pastorial shepherding heart.

I think in some of what we have seen an issue with with fivefold ministry, if we found more identity and title and desire to honor for title, then we have found identity in Christ.

And so I think part of the reason we’ve mishandled or not I say that in general some have mishandled those who have been under them or not been good leaders, is because in Wayland’s words, we’ve not found ourselves in a cross shaped life, we’ve not crucified the flesh, we’ve actually catered to it.

And I could keep going like we could go into the orphan spirit and how we have perpetuated that orphan heart in the next generation because we’ve not found ourselves healed. And even in the fivefold understanding, jesus is the representation of the all five. He’s the fullness of the fivefold, and so if I’m going to identify myself with Christ, then I’m going to need to understand that my weakness, where I’m weak, he’s made strong, and so that means that I may have to care for someone who I have nothing in common with with tenderness, and so I think that’s just it’s important when we talk about being a fivefold leader, but also being a leader as we continue to draw on Christ, yeah, and we’re really under shepherds right, and so we’re actually supposed to reflect what God has taught us, the type of leadership he has, and we do that into the people below us.

0:36:47 – Speaker 2
Anything outside of that is not kingdom, right. So the mishandling or the abuse, well, let’s say that you know, we were talking today at lunch and we said, you know, sometimes when we, when we talk to the next generation above us or we talk to them about things being mishandled, it’s okay like there’s a line in the sand if we talk about sexual sin or sexual abuse, but when we start talking about verbal abuse or spiritual abuse, somehow they don’t have a, they don’t have any, they don’t know, even know you watch them, start to like get, you know, shaky in the chair because it’s okay to talk about sexual abuse, but it’s not talk about when a leader verbally abuses your. You have spiritual abuse. These are some things that we have to kind of clean up, guys, and so why do we wait? Why do you get talk into that? Maybe some of that you guys can answer it, however you’d like.

0:37:38 – Speaker 5
Sure, that’s a power packed question here, but I would say for one, the challenge we have is the good thing, there’s an acceleration of what God’s doing in profits. But the challenge is that acceleration can be devoid of leadership around them. That shows not just your gift or your ability to prophesy but also what it’s like to lead. And when you are only around profits and not shepherded by pastors, then you don’t understand what it means to have a heart for people. And your fruit has to speak just as much as your gift. And I’ve seen a lot of profits that are wounded and healed and try to mask it with their gift because of spiritual abuse that they perpetuate through those they lead. So there has to be a safe place where you can begin to bear your wounds, so your wounds can be healed by the wounds of Christ, so that those wounds become wounds to begin to birth greater things. And there has to be that unity of all five-fold functions. And I think a challenge for many prophets, at least in my experience, is because we’ve moved in such a restoration of the apostle and their prophet that we’ve kind of kicked the pastors to the side. And because we’ve kicked the pastors to the side we lose that heart posture for the sheep.

And one of my mentors, lynne Sweet, would always, you know, were none of us our leaders. And he’s like what do you mean? None of us are leaders, we’re all followers, which means you lead, how you follow, and if you bear the image of Christ laying down your life so that life can move in others I mean Paul says it really the, the, the apostolic function that should move in all of us is death works in us, so life can work in you. And one of the challenges out and with this is if we kind of use this cop out that says I know you by the spirit, right, right, right, right, you feel me, you feel, instead of actually sitting down with somebody and getting to know them.

So if I hear somebody that’s full of fire and prophetic gifting, but I know there’s wounds in them, but I’m not willing to sit at the table and hear them and begin to celebrate the gift that they are and give them space to be transparent, then they’ll always be a leader that will perpetuate. This is what leading looks like, and if you don’t begin to embody what another way is, a more excellent way, through love, then how will they ever know any different. So I think it’s you know. With those leaders that begin to move like that, I think there’s more to their story than we know. But if you’re not willing to sit down and give them space or give them a year, sometimes I found that that’s why they are the way they are, because no one ever gave them a space to sit at the table and get to know them.

0:41:10 – Speaker 4
Well, no, I have things to say, I just these are my views. I think, in large part, most of the prophetic movement has the entire narrative wrong. I think most people let me say this subconsciously in an action maybe you wouldn’t say this publicly, but functionally they view prophetic ministry as manifestational, not incarnational.

0:41:37 – Speaker 2
All right, Can you, can you share a little?

0:41:40 – Speaker 4
bit about that.

0:41:41 – Speaker 2
Come on.

0:41:43 – Speaker 4
They view it as manifestational, not incarnational. So therefore, most people are elevated not based on their Christ likeness, which requires relationship, but on the level to which they manifest a spiritual gift. Therefore, you do have some who manifest at a high level, but Christ is not yet formed in them. And the problem is is that most of modern day prophetic ministry in the West is based on entertainment, not edification of a body, because we are a decadent society and therefore a lot of our prophecies are inconsequential. We’re not dealing with famines, we’re not dealing with wars, we’re not dealing with serious issues most of the time. And so because people cannot get let me say this, because, because our society has become so individualistic and atomized, people are not positioned to receive love. We do not know how to be loved, we do not know how to have community. And so, therefore, when someone jumps in the prophetic stream, well, this person’s gift and I’m not saying God’s not speaking through, god’s not speaking truth, but they give me edification and hope and they see a destiny and purpose when I’m drowning in my life. And so I I think that if we are go back and take a look at scripture, in the narrative of scripture, it’s incarnational. So let me say this the incarnation of Christ is not a response to the fall of Adam. The logos would have all was was always going to incarnate. This is back to basic principles. So so, psalm 8, david, reveals something to us that we need to pay attention. He says who is man that you’re mindful of us? Who is man that you’re mindful of him? That you made him a little lower than the angels and you crowned him with glory. So Adam and Eve possessed a glory Okay, that covered their neck in this text was always supposed to be a part of who they were when they send that glory list. And they are indeed created a little lower than the angels. But how is it that we are to judge the angels, as Paul says, if we’re lower them? Impossible. The way that we were to judge the angels, even though we created lower the angels, is because the word Was going to manifest and become in the union with humanity and thereby elevate the entirety of humanity above the angelic creation.

And so the problem is is, let me say this when I read the Old Testament Through the lens that the, that it’s the spirit of Christ Speaking through them, I see the word Pre-incarnate itching to, to insert himself in his creation. I’m seeing the logos itching to take on place. I think that’s what David. I think David wrestled with that reality. He had so many messianic Psalms he could feel especially tabernacle David mentioned for the Prince of the earth that he could feel the desire For for Christ to once again walk in the cool of the day, as he did them, because that’s Jesus. Jesus says, isaiah saw him, and, and so when we have an entertainment driven model, that’s that there’s basically it’s a spiritual arms race and we don’t understand the narrative of what the spirit of Christ is attempting to accomplish, we actually work against the spirit of Christ, and I dare not say what that actually is theologically Because it’s scared. Okay, thank you, that’s why you’re here.

0:45:52 – Speaker 2
So Ned and Ned, let me ask you this you know, we opened our meeting last year and like there were all these different streams, leaders from different streams, and this is my opening thing Can we stop clapping at the next generation of profits for being able to prophesy to a hundred people? Can we start clapping when they have integrity, when they like let’s, because let’s change our clap, because here’s what’s happening. They’re responding to clap because already fatherless and they’re being saved and coming in the church and unless they Understand that, oh you clap for my integrity. I want to be more integrist, and so what they?

0:46:27 – Speaker 4
do is get a crowd to clap for your integrity, because not a crowd doesn’t know you’re integrity.

0:46:31 – Speaker 2
Yeah, but this is where fathers and mothers need to come in the church. So tell me where you think that went wrong, because the purity of the and and the call of the prophetic movement God put in the earth. Where did it go wrong?

0:46:43 – Speaker 4
I have an answer. Give me this a second, because I’m wrestling a question you already said before. But where did it go wrong? It it? I think it’s. It’s a hermit, I think it’s partly a hermeneutical issue and I think that it’s also a breaking of continuity. So here’s, let me. Let me say this Respectfully the prophetic wasn’t restored at a later date.

The prophetic has been going on for a long time and that’s that’s. That’s actually. It’s never been broken. So but there are. There are Christians that in a Premodern age we didn’t have communication with that. We’re still manifesting the gifts on levels actually I don’t know anyone who scratches into right now, I’m talking post ascension All the way through the Pentecostal the, you know, through through Western Pentecostal outpourings, whether it’s Barney Creek in North Carolina or a Zoo’s a street, and so we’re still in an age of discovery in the prophetic. We we are just now getting to where we have are starting to get into the interpretations Of what certain things actually mean functionally, because we said when let me say this, okay, so People are gonna probably want to filet me for this so Certain aspects of the Reformation went too far, and certainly aspects of the Roman Catholic Church went too far. And then and and by like, after 1054, the Eastern Church really wasn’t in the discussion, and there’s a lot of gold there, to be honest with you, a lot of gold there, and and so we’re actually so it feels like discovery. But what’s actually happening is God is catching us up and so like for me. I just be honest.

I take Alan Hirsch’s approach to Ephesians, chapter 4. Actually don’t think that there’s Apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers and evangelists and everybody else. I actually think that the reality is is that letter was given to be read in front of everybody. There wasn’t a. This is a session for leaders and this is a session for everyone else. Everybody’s there.

So here’s the issue is. Here’s the issues is that if you examine scripture, just because you may function in a gift doesn’t mean you’re qualified to lead in the body, because the qualifications that Paul lays out is not that you have had hands laid on you and commissioned, are recognized as a five-fold minister. Is that your marriage is right. If you’re married, that you have it, you have it. So, so, so, so. So I would say this in a, in a New Testament, ancient Christian Environment, you would never clap for a prophet to have integrity. They would never even be allowed to have that place for people to think about it If they weren’t really proven in integrity.

So what we’re doing is we are we are mistakenly elevating Spiritual gifts into offices of leadership. I’ll be honest, even some music there’s, there’s, here’s, here’s. So Let me wrap this. Real stupid about that. Okay, sorry, I gotta be funny, I’m tired, I’m sorry, it’s funny to me. My wife not, might be laughing, and Elizabeth is, and Frankie, so I feel good about myself. So, so, so, here’s, so, here’s here.

Let me say something there is a reality that there is a people on planet Earth that they so embody profits that we have to recognize, that we have to recognize that they need to spend so much time with God, to the point that you must protect the prophet from the people and the people from the prophet.

Sometimes and you gotta know when Now we don’t like that idea, because we don’t live in an age of continuity, we take a break from Old Testament, new Testament that I don’t think God breaks, and so we misunderstand, we misunderstand the John the Baptist. John the Baptist had a certain job that he executed well, because we actually the function of profit. We don’t want to get into all that right now because we’re not in a place of emotional health where we can handle that. But God wants to bring us there. We can understand certain things and we’re a Demptive way and I don’t want to get into that right now because it take too long to explain that in a healthy way. But but let me say this there are so. So what we do in America, when you start getting you know, a following, well, you start a ministry.


Join us for an enriching discussion with Waylon Henderson, an exceptional intercessor and passionate lover of Jesus. Together, we explore the profound importance of intercession and prayer in our lives. Our conversation unravels the power of the cross and how embracing a cross-shaped life can transform our perspectives. We also highlight the urgency of shifting the prayer room from the backroom to the front lines of our generation’s challenges.

This episode brings a unique perspective on the harmonious coexistence of men and women as carriers of God’s image. Our discussion takes a fresh look at the biblical narrative of Adam and Eve, reflecting on how their relationship reflects unity and oneness. Further, we extend this idea to understand the roles of married couples in fulfilling the image of Christ, regardless of their different callings. We also engage in an enlightening discussion about redefining the traditional concept of ministry and marriage in the church.

We touch on crucial issues surrounding women in ministry, emphasizing the need for balanced representation in service. We ponder the importance of a relational ministry and discuss the feminine dimension of God. Our conversation then steers towards the necessity of reconciliation and unity among men and women for better understanding and cooperation. Finally, we share insights on the empowering narrative of Deborah and Barack, emphasizing the importance of empowering and encouraging the women in our lives. So, lend your ears to this episode for an enlightening exploration of these thought-provoking topics.

Where to dive in: 

(0:00:00) – Exploring Men and Women Running Together (7 Minutes)

We {converse} about men and women running together and the significance of comprehending the strength of the cross and intercession. We examine what it appears like to be a messenger in this hour and {investigate} the basis of prayer and intercession that is essential for everything else to flow. We talk about how the Lord is raising up intercessors and messengers and how the prayer room needs to go from the backroom to the frontroom to meet the Lord. We urge the body of Christ to embody intercession and move into a lifestyle of prayer and encounter.

(0:07:00) – Gender and God’s Image (7 Minutes)

We explore how the concept of male and female living harmoniously together to bear God’s image in the earth can inform our understanding of marriage and the body of Christ. We look at the narrative of Adam and Eve in Genesis and consider how the original Hebrew language reveals more about this relationship. We discuss the idea that marriage is a physical, emotional and spiritual connection, but not the only way to understand unity and oneness. Finally, we consider how the roles of married couples, despite different callings, can still come together to fulfill the image of Christ.

(0:13:47) – Redefining Ministry and Marriage in Church (5 Minutes)

We consider what ministry looks like in its fullest sense. We discuss how, beyond the traditional idea of a husband and wife with a microphone, ministry is about belonging and inclusion for all, regardless of how they move. We explore how the idea of a family moving together in a community can break down barriers, and how the concept of men and women living together in harmony to bear God’s image in the earth can inform our understanding of marriage and ministry.

(0:19:09) – Exploring Hindrances and Empowerment in Relationships (5 Minutes)

The importance of spiritual fathers and the need to nurture and foster the strength and passion of the women in our lives is paramount. Culture often stifles the strong will of women, and men of God should honor it instead of obstructing it. We can come together to confront our inner Judas and Peter and experience the transformation that follows. As men, we can address the obstacles we have faced in the past and how to handle the hurtful accusations of manipulation when our intentions are honest.

(0:23:53) – Role of Women in Scripture Exploration (8 Minutes)

We investigate how the table of remembrance in communion can be a place to come into union with how God sees women. To comprehend the scriptures, we must read them from Christ’s viewpoint. We learn from Jesus’ example that he placed women at the forefront, not on the sidelines. We analyze how the early church acknowledged Mary Magdalene as an apostle and the consequences of that. Lastly, we examine how the restoration of the table and the tabernacle is essential to understanding our identity as holy messengers.

(0:32:09) – Issues Surrounding Women in Ministry (17 Minutes)

We {discuss} what it looks like for the body of Christ to incarnate Christ in the culture and why it is important to have a balanced representation of both male and female in ministry. We reflect on the need for relational and not transactional ministry, as well as the importance of having the right people around to help cultivate and encourage the fire burning in each person. We also consider the importance of seeing the vessel God has made and recognizing the assignment He has for them. We explore the feminine dimension of God and grapple with why it can be hard for men to grasp. Lastly, we reflect on the importance of being redeemed and how it can lead to a fire that is ignited and how it can be hindered by religion.

(0:49:39) – The Role of Reconciliation and Unity (11 Minutes)

We examine the need for men and women to come together and sit at the same table to truly understand one another, breaking down the walls of division and past hurt. We discuss how the culture needs to shift for us to come together and how the Charismatic movement has an excuse for not taking the time to understand each other. We also consider the idea of a bridal reconciliation and how we can come together in consecration and holiness. Finally, we look at how the younger generation is longing to see something new and how the Lord is providing signposts to pick up on.

(1:00:12) – Men and Women Running Together (8 Minutes)

We uncover the truth about Deborah and Barack, and how God elevated Deborah’s voice and ability to hear from him. We also discuss the importance of male and female voices running together, and the need for men to come alongside the women in our lives, to empower and encourage them. We recognize the power of spiritual fathers and how they nurture and foster the strength and passion of the women in their lives, and how the table of remembrance in communion can be a place to come into union with how God sees women. We explore how the body of Christ can incarnate Christ in the culture, and why it is important to have a balanced representation of men and women in ministry.


0:00:00 – Wayland Henderson
Because what this makes me think of is Colossians 2, when Paul begins to start to talk about that principalities and powers were disarmed by the cross. So let’s start there, when a church fully starts to not be afraid that I’m going to embrace the cross-shaped life in this area. But I don’t know about that area because I’m afraid of what that would look like. You know, it’s like every fiery woman is not a Jezebel.

0:00:45 – Tammie Southerland
Hi, welcome back to the Burning Messengers. My name is Tammy Sutherland and I want to ask you a question Do you really believe that men and women can run together? Do you believe that there’s hindrances to that, and what does that look like? We’ve been talking about this a good bit, but we believe that God is actually calling us into an hour where we’re able to bring about the fullness, the beauty of who he is as we begin to run together in really the end of the age. We’re at a time where the world is in crisis and we need to see the power of God move and we need to, like, probably get past some of our religious barriers so that we can see what he’s doing in this hour. He’s raising up intercessors, he’s raising up messengers, and today I have one of my good friends with me. You’ve met him before.

Waylon Henderson is coming on and we’re going to have a really real conversation about this. Waylon, welcome back to the Burning Messengers podcast and I’m so thankful that you’re here. We’ve had so many awesome conversations and this is one that’s kind of personal to us and dear to our hearts. So you guys don’t know Waylon. He is an amazing intercessor, he’s a lover of Jesus. He’s a father, he’s a husband, he really is used powerfully in the nations around the world, but his heart really is to just encounter the Lord, to know the Lord and to really teach what he’s saying and what he’s doing. So, waylon, if you want to tell anything else, you can talk a little bit about what you’ve been doing with intercession with the school. Just to jump into this.

0:02:15 – Wayland Henderson
Sure, it’s great to be on here with you again, tammy. Blessings to everyone who is either watching live or will watch recording later. I mean, just as some of the things we’re doing now really a lot of it is thrusted through intercession. I mean, in fact, everything that I do and everything that we’re walking in now has always come from the birth canal, if you will, of intercession, even before I even understood what all that meant. Right, but we’re the Lord is really positioning us now to with a mandate, really to give an understanding to the body of Christ that, yes, I don’t know of anybody else, but growing up it was always the mothers of the church that were the strong intercessors in the back room. Yes, they carry powerful oil and anointing to break through in prayer and many things that many of our generation, much of our generation, walks in now was because of that.

But, at the same time, one of the things that’s on our hearts and the mandate for us, the Gathering Kingdom Center, is to take the prayer room from the back room to the front room, that it comes from the back of the room and on the front room and the front lines of the fault lines of the shaking in our generation and that there’s not really a mantle that you can see anywhere in scripture of intercession, because the whole body of Christ, the bride, is called to embody that. So anything that we do as far as discipleship, apostolic and prophetic foundations, all flow out of that foundational thread and understanding of intercession. So that’s some of the things. Whether it’s around the local region in Arlington, texas and DFW, whether it’s around the nation, whether it’s another nation of the world, god is raising up a heart for people to pray. So sight and times.

0:04:16 – Tammie Southerland
Right, and it all goes back to that. Everything that we talk about, everything that we do, it goes back to that. It starts with that. It’s the cross and the intercession and obviously the cross and intercession.

And we might sound like a broken record when we talk about this, but we’re really not, because if we don’t understand that these are the foundation stones and everything else that we’re saying, everything else that we’re doing, it’s really built on sinking sand, for a lack of a better word. And so even what we’re talking about today can men and women run together? If we don’t have a foundation, an understanding of the cross, an understanding of intercession, then the answer is no, we can’t. Men and women can’t run together, we can’t run at all. Everything falls apart.

And that’s why I really love you and I love what you do, because that’s your heart. Your heart is to teach a generation to pray. Your heart is to teach a generation to look at the cross and what else is there. And so when we talk about that, we can get into so many different things. We can get into thoughtful ministry, we can get into missions, we can get into even what it looks like to be a messenger in this hour. But if you’re not living a lifestyle of intercession, if you’re not living a lifestyle of prayer, you don’t understand the power of the cross. Then you need to go back to square one. That’s the milk, right?

That’s the milk and the meat right All at the same time.

0:05:33 – Wayland Henderson
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

0:05:35 – Tammie Southerland
And let’s say, just diving into the subject, what are your thoughts on that? I’ve been talking about that quite a bit and honestly, it came up to me you and I were at a conference together, I don’t know, a few weeks ago and it started kind of burning in my heart because something interesting happened is like you went into an encounter and I went into an encounter at the same time, and it’s almost like your encounter, my encounter. This has happened before, but it’s almost like you saw a different facet of what I saw, but it was a very similar encounter and I began to ask the Lord the question like what is this? What is God doing right now, prophetically? But also what’s God doing with Waylon and Tammy?

You know, we seem to be in the same vein whenever it comes to some of the revelation that God’s given us, and the Lord actually began to speak to me. It’s actually like looking at two different facets of a stone, of a gemstone. You know where I’m able to capture a certain facet and you’re able to capture a certain facet, even though we may be in the same encounter, in the same revelation, and when we begin to bring those things together, it paints a picture of the character and the nature of God that we otherwise wouldn’t be able to see.

You know, I believe it reaches even further than that, into some power ministry and some building as well. But just talk to me for a second on your end of that, what are you thinking, what are you hearing, and why is this a subject that we need to talk about?

0:06:58 – Wayland Henderson
So good, so good. You know I was thinking about, and we had some conversation around this as well and when you start having these type of encounters, especially in particular between you and I, male and female, and the Lord starting to weave certain dimensions and facets of what he’s doing through both of it at the same time, it reminds me of Genesis, right and when God desired to make man in his own image and in a culture that is male dominated, your immediate response is God desired to make man. But a better translation is God made human.

0:07:56 – Tammie Southerland
Yeah, yeah.

0:07:58 – Wayland Henderson
Which includes male and female.

0:08:01 – Tammie Southerland

0:08:02 – Wayland Henderson
So his image bears is is incomplete, actually complete actually, if it’s only male, because his image, to bear his image as humanity in the earth, it needs both male and female. And when I, when I start to think about you, know different dimensions and facets that the Lord speaks through For a wife and I. Example, for example, a lot of times you look at Genesis, because it was, you have this narrative of Genesis one where it’s male and female, the the bearing God’s image, and then when you get into chapter two, it’s still male and female, but then it could easily just slip into a context of Husband and wife marriage ministry, which I think is huge, and it actually begins to help set a framework of holiness and transparency, has Men and women begin to move together in which we can get into, maybe a little later. But for me there are different aspects of Male and female that bear the image of God that if you only have one aspect of it, there’s another facet that you don’t see. And when I started to think About that and you and I beginning to have different encounters and assignments together now, I kind of joked with you and was like we’re, we’re like the Wonder Twins, you know, maybe.

So maybe showing our age now talking about Old-school DC comics, but but it’s like.

There there is an aspect of God, when God makes himself known by the spirit to, to a male and female man, man and woman of God like us. For example, there is something about my male makeup that the Lord is going to speak to me in that way to express an aspect of his, of his nature, and then he’s going to do the same thing. That’s going to speak to you, that’s going to begin to move through your aspect from a female and it’s not meant to be either or when you put both together, it gives a fuller understanding of what God is doing in the earth. That’s not male dominated or female dominated, but it’s those that are walking side by side Bearing the image of Christ. I think, when we can really understand that, not just from a Marriage perspective, although it’s very important, but a male and female perspective Working together to see Christ image, bear image that that image made known in dark places to those who are separated In that aspect of male and female.

0:10:54 – Tammie Southerland
So yeah, it’s interesting you’re talking about this. You know it’s when you talk about when God took Adam and put him to a deep sleep, or Should say man, mankind, because it wasn’t at that point it was mankind, put him into a deep sleep, and it says that he took out of his side Rip. Informed fashion woman.

I’ve actually been doing some study here recently on the original language and I never knew this before.

But the, the, in the original language, in Hebrew, it says that he put him to a deep sleep and he reached within the chamber, within chamber of his side, and pulled out from his in the within the chamber, and essence of Him, which he created into woman, and so it just brings it to a whole another light to me, and you know, in the aspect of marriage, marriage is probably as close as we can get to understanding what union is supposed to look like with the father, son, boy spirit. You know it’s a physical, it’s an emotional and it’s a spiritual connection, but it was never meant to be limited to that as the body, because it says there’s neither male nor female, greek nor Jew upon or free, and so the reality of that is is, if we can actually begin to enter into the Re, the revelation that Jesus was trying to portray in John 17, the unity, the oneness this is what’s hit me recently there’s a oneness that’s available for us in the body of Christ that can in some ways even surpass what the marriage is.

Is there to, to forecast, for a lack of a better word, because in Christ we’re supposed to be one and we’re supposed to be male nor female, bond or Jew, you know, bond or free. Great north, you were supposed to be able to be restored back to the place of the garden where there is a unity, and and then even in the body of Christ, looking like you know, looking at him in holiness and purity there should be a spiritual and a Relational connection where we can truly become one in the spirit, and I think this is a new language for a lot of us like, like, we’ve never thought about it this way before and of course it’s like you said.

We’ve always thought, okay, well, ministry and marriage, right. Ministry together, men and women run, running together in marriage is the ultimate goal, right. But here’s the problem. Sometimes that doesn’t happen that way because, like your spouse and my spouse, you know, has very different callings than us. We want them to come to the forefront, but the reality is, damon’s not called to a microphone, he’s not called to a platform, he’s called to a business, you know.

And yeah, and what he carries and the way that he comes alongside me, in the way that he covers me, is very different. You know, then, what some would expect men, ministry and marriage to look like, and so if I took that as my only Representation of what it looks like to be one in the spirit, then I wouldn’t understand what he truly meant, what the word truly meant by the body running together. And so I think we’re embarking on something completely different than we’ve considered before. But it’s not. But it’s, it’s biblical, it’s an entrance into the realm of the spirit of oneness that we’ve not actually even considered, partially ably, because we’ve had a religious boundary where we didn’t believe or we didn’t trust that we could run together.

0:14:24 – Wayland Henderson
So true, I think what we’re really talking about is even stepping back. All this is included, in my perspective at least, in Reformation. Reformation with what? What is this thing called ministry, and what is it supposed to look like in the first place? Yeah, and and, and, okay, well, okay, yeah, marriage, marriage ministry doesn’t mean that the Husband and the wife both have a microphone Right it’s and start there. Then, okay, what? What does it even mean To move in ministry? You know, what about business? Is that not an aspect of of ministry? What about the home? Is that not an aspect of ministry? What about, you know, in in the culture?

The challenge, I think, also starts from okay, you have three percent of Of the of the of the church, that’s full-time, and you have 97%, including male and female, that go out into the world and and when you are locked in this framework, that is limited of. This is how the ministry looks and this is how it works. We have a challenge. Even understanding how to move has husband and wife, it’s no wonder that we, we get caught up. Well, how do we move in male and female? And I think what you talked about before, if we are meant to be the place that God dwells, has sacred space, that Holiness and sanctification, is about imparting and partaking of his divine nature. That Begins to cleanse our perspective, heal our hearts and begin to drive out anything that would separate us from him, so that how we view each other Comes from how Christ views he views us.

And when I think of ministry and I think this is something that I love to see with us is, no matter what it looks like, you and I running together Includes our spouses, even though they may not move in the same way. It’s not like, hey, you stay here, we’ll go do ministry and you just pray and and cover. No, everyone is invited to the party and everyone has a place. And I think that belonging for me increases and breaks the limitations Off of of those like you and I being able to run together freely because there’s trust, there’s not separation, there’s inclusion, there’s not exclude, we’re not exclusive. This Okay. Well, this is how our ministry moves. My spouse moves this way, so you can’t come, know, everybody Should have a part to play. And when you see how valuable that is, I think a family moving together in a community Moving together breaks those limitations, because it all first starts with what does ministry really look like, if that all makes sense and yes it does.

0:17:37 – Tammie Southerland
That’s exactly where we are, you know it’s we’re trying to. We’re trying to tear down and rebuild right now, things, mindsets and understandings, especially of ministry in the church, that we believe for so long. So that makes total sense because, you’re right, part of the, the hindrance, has been Ministry looks like a microphone, a platform in a church, whereas we, we’re all created to be ministers under him and a boy. Yes, you know, in the whatever realm of influence that we have, and so I like the way you brought that up. That makes a lot more Sense, and being able to put it in those kind of terms breaks down barriers even further.

0:18:14 – Wayland Henderson
Come on, come on. And even when I I mean me, just I we talked about this before that I, yeah, I have a little sister, my sister. Actually, we had the same birthday seven years apart, and so when, when I was seven and my sister was born, it was like I’m I remember having my little Superman chair Didn’t buy sitting by the crib. It’s like, okay, I’m the protector of my baby sister, right? So it is be funny that anytime something happened, she was more afraid to tell big brother than she was my parents.

You know, I never really paid attention to that growing up, but, you know, having having a baby sister, having two daughters and and strong a, a House full of three strong women, right? I started to realize over the years that even just that aspect of of life and family and Having spiritual daughters that it didn’t matter whether they needed a platform or a microphone in their hand my job has a spiritual father Was to begin to raise them up, to begin to see themselves. Has Christ sees them and don’t allow anything in the culture to begin to hinder their fire and.

Yeah, like I like, even with my, my, my natural daughters, who are so my spiritual daughters, all those together, I Would never want to hinder their will I Don’t call them hardheaded their strong will, right, because culture will suppress that in, in, in women a lot, because there are too many men that are afraid of the strong will and the fire that that women carry.

But if that’s an aspect in the nature of the image of God, I hinder myself from receiving that realm of glory if I begin to try to suppress it. And I think that that’s what we’re talking about is first, if you are, if you are confident and secure, has a man of God and who God has made you and you are fully committed to holiness and righteousness, then the hindrance of what could happen in a relationship with a female, because your heart is not pure in the first place, yeah, you should have parameters. That’s not for you, yeah, but then also on the other side, not being hindered or fearful of a strong woman that begins to carry fire, then I think what we try to navigate through can be, can increase and cause a synergy One chases a thousand, two chases ten thousand, but it all comes from being in a place where we are one with the sanctifier, who continually sanctifies us, who cleanses those places that cause hindrances and reasons for parameters and wrong perspectives in the first place.

0:21:39 – Tammie Southerland
You know, you said something recently. You’re talking about the table. You posted something on Facebook and you talked about the table, making us address our inner or Judas and Peter, and even as you’re talking.

I’m thinking about that because that’s truly what we’re having to do, as any pioneers do, as you go through a process of coming into what we call new is really not new. We’re restoring the the ancient or restoring the old. In all of this, I’m very interested to hear from the standpoint of a man, some of these hindrances that we’ve we’ve faced in the past and you know, even for me personally faced plenty of the reactions and responses that you’re talking about, even with you know being called hard headed, you know being being accused of, you know the fire that I have, being manipulative, how, which is intensely painful, just so you guys know it’s very painful when God is placed within the heart of a woman, a passion for him and a revelation of him. To be accused of something being unholy about. That’s extremely painful and it does shut down. It will shut us down very quickly because we do want to be pleasing to him, we do want to be holy and righteous and we do have our ears open to correction, just to just to make that point. That’s why that is hurtful and it is painful when it’s not true, because we do have our ears open to correction.

But in that you know wayland, saying that I think the table of communion for for us, what we’ve experienced, I think what others are experiencing right now, in and of itself does cause us to have to deal with these things when we partake of. You know, what we’ve been talking about is transfiguration, transformation at that table, addressing things. You know, as we take up the bread, the body of Christ, the blood of Christ, we have to come face to face with the flesh. Talk about that a little bit in the aspect of what we’re talking about right now. You know, just on the, on the male standpoint, what are we doing? What are, how are we dealing with some of these things?

0:23:48 – Wayland Henderson
And that’s so good and that takes me into so many different places. But if you look at the table right, especially communion, when Paul, for example, talks about how to eat of the bread and the and the drink of the cup of the Lord in a worthily manner, because if you eat of this bread and drink of this cup unworthily, there’s judgment comes because you don’t discern the Lord’s body. So in Genesis, if the Lord’s image is embodied in male and female, there is a shaking that I believe that we are in. That is beginning to expose all the places we have been dismembered Because it’s at the table. When it says remember it, the table of remembrance, where, when we begin to see where we have separated God’s body not just including because it’s at the table we’re in in society and culture, even in Paul’s day and even in our day, where society separates us, culture separates us, ethnicity separates us, cultural status separates us. That it also includes where male and female are separated. It’s at the table, where culture, dismembered, all of those spaces are meant to be re membered back together as we can mume with the body in the blood of the Lord. So for me, as a male sitting at the table and beginning to commune on the body in the blood of the Lord means I have to come into union with how he sees women, and one thing that I always begin to teach in our community was when we open up the scriptures, we must read for Christ, and they used to be like what do you mean by read for Christ? Essentially, what it means is when I went up to scriptures and I find out where Christ is. Now I’m being read by the scripture that says what I be, where Christ is. For example, you look at so many places. Where would Jesus be? Jesus would be ministering, sitting at the table with the tax collectors and the sinners. Then you begin to look what I be sitting at the same place Jesus was, or what I be the Pharisees beginning to question him. When Jesus comes and he begins to minister to the woman caught in adultery, the I be where Jesus is be ministering to her, saying go and send no more, or what I be, the Pharisees having a stone in my hand. So when I start to look where Jesus is, jesus began to put women in the scripture, at a forefront, not off to the side. You look at the resurrection.

The early church called Mary, mary Magdalene the apostle the apostles, and that would completely destroy our culture. Now, because when you look at the third day, when they get to the tomb, and they get to the tomb and Peter and John are there and they begin to see grave clothes, but Mary is there first and they’re on the outside of the tomb and Peter and John see grave clothes and they and they leave, but Mary stays in the same place. Catch this that they see the grave clothes. Angels appear Right. So where the men seen dead things, mary actually seen angels that are facing each other, much like the cherubim would be on the mercy seat. So that’s why the early church referred her the apostles, or the apostles, because she was the one that told them he has risen. He has risen and you see the relationship that he had, and sometimes we’ll skip right to Lazarus. Lazarus was his boy. Yeah, lazarus was his boy, but also was Martha and Mary. He was always with Martha, mary and Lazarus.

And so when you start to see things like that, it starts to bring that Okay, where have I has a Peter denied your place, that you put women in Scripture?

Or where have I has a Judas begin to betray you, discounting where you’ve put women in Scripture?

Has you do in Scripture? So, in context of the table, we have to begin to look how does Jesus view the world and does our view line up with his view? And when you start to really have a transparent place like that at the table, then you have to begin to commune and allow that. One thing I love about communion right is you consume it. But it also is where the Hebrew word for consume is also the word for consuming fire. Yeah, the same Hebrew word for a fire being consumed is the same Hebrew word for food being consumed. When you’re at the table and you begin to consume the life and the spirit of the Lord of where would he be that begins to consume you, so that fire should begin to convict and judge you righteously. So your eyes begin to see in a way that they’ve not seen before, and I think that’s that’s why you find the table and the mist of a lot of things that we talk about, including the subject we’re talking about today.

0:30:02 – Tammie Southerland
Right, because the restoration of the table, the revelation and I’ve been talking about the tabernacle in the table the revelation of the restoration of both of those things is a. So it’s essential to everything else that we’re where we’re walking and what we’re stepping into, and it’s been one of the most neglected things in the past, you know, I’d say even 50 years, 30, 30 to 50 years. It’s been one of the most neglected things when it comes to the church. And so this brings me to my next question. You talk about the early church and how. The early church, you know, called Mary the apostle of the apostles. How did we get where we are? How did we get here? No-transcript.

0:30:44 – Burning Messengers
Hey Burning Messenger, we want to interrupt today’s episode to remind you of Tammy’s book Permission to Burn. The book is her testimony on paper. She was on fire and never expected her life to demonstrate anything other than the zeal of God’s heart for his people. Tammy was going to change the world and see millions come to know her Jesus with the same passion and desire. Until the lies and obstacles begin.

Permission to Burn will take you on a journey of truth and release the weight of God’s glory and recommission the believer in Christ to live out his or her identity as a holy messenger. Awaken the courage to reclaim the undeniable truth amid a dangerously confused generation. In part, keys to living the holy, consecrated yet exhilarating, spirit-filled life. Call forth a scriptural plumb line of reformation to the modern church and leadership structure. Combine together hearts of seasoned leaders and young believers for a sustainable last day’s Holy Spirit outpouring. Read Permission to Burn. Get back on the mountain God gave you and take your place in setting this world on fire for the love of Jesus. In your generation you can find Permission to Burn, breaking the chains of compromise from a holy generation, on Amazon.

0:32:04 – Wayland Henderson
Yeah, yeah, I mean the. I think the one thing is real really, where we we kind of picked up from the beginning, is what is this thing called ministry? Or, more importantly, what is this thing called the church, the body of Christ, and? And how do we not assimilate to the culture? But how do we incarnate Christ in the culture? And the more we begin to look like a culture that becomes more male than female, then it’s easily to lose that over time on.

What was Christ’s original intent? To make himself known through male and female. And again he gets back into into ministry. Right and okay, does it mean that we need male and female conferences? Yeah, well, of course we do. Right, probably need more than more than we do, but it’s more than that, right, it’s much more than that, it’s okay.

What is your makeup as an image bearer of Christ, male or female, and do you have the space and permission to make him known in that place? And do you have the, the encouragement? Do you have the, the family of, of, of men around you that are encouraging you and giving you permission to let your fire burn? And do they know you enough? And I think this goes back to communion as well, do they know you enough In order to help cultivate that? And I think that’s that’s a huge thing is we have more I’m just going to say it this way we have more ministry that is transactional than relational, because you don’t sit at the table long enough to get to know somebody. Why, okay, that that woman is very fiery and it’s like she seems like she’s angry all the time. Right, well, it’s probably not true, but do you know why she burns the way that she burns? Do you know what the Lord has given her? When you discern the, the vessel that God has formed with his own hands? Because there is an assignment and a in a people group that need exactly what she carries, and you can be a hindrance of that or you can be a celebrator and cultivate that.

So, when I see that, I celebrate what God does in women, intentionally, actually, because I see that there is a hindrance of, you know, not just in the culture, but there is things that are demonically inspired and I believe that the Lord is using women as a sign of his bride beginning to come forth and I, I can, I can, I can go forever, but I’d have to stop here.

I remember when I started seeing visions of, of, of the bride, right, it was the weirdest visionary encounter and if you’re prophetic, you, you, you’ll, you’ll fully get. You know just weird stuff, you see, and I would see like a head, a Christ, you know, the head of Christ on a, on a, on a on a female body, and I was like what in the world is this? I rebuked you, devil, I don’t know what this is. And this kept happening. And then I began to realize that this is a metaphor. This is not, this is not literal. There’s, there’s something of the bride and the bridegroom being brought together, and it was over that course where I began to see a different aspect of God, that that that’s, that’s a feminine dimension. That began to give me a whole different perspective when I watched God move through women, and I think that’s a hard, hard place for men to grasp.

0:36:44 – Tammie Southerland
Oh, I have so many things I want to ask you right now because I want to know why it’s so hard personally, but at the same time, like just from my perspective, to hear you, to hear you say that brings so much healing even to me and I know that it is to many that are watching right now because one of the places for me, as a woman I grew up Methodist, okay, so Methodist have women preachers, right. So I didn’t know, I didn’t know the rules, right. When I got filled with the Holy Spirit and I began to just burn for the Lord, god redeemed everything for me. I was, I was like burning in redemption everything I taught on fire. I’m not, I’m like, I’m not boasting. I was so, so, so immature, like I didn’t know anything, okay, but everything I touched turned to, turned to fire, like just igniting revival on my college campus, the campus that I was raped at. I went back to this college campus, started a group and it lit up. I mean, it was, it was everything I touched burned and it was the redemption on my life.

And it wasn’t until I came ahead to head with with religion that I began to question the validity of who I was. Didn’t understand why, but I began to be shown scriptures that said that what I was doing was basically against the law of God, and so I had to try to figure out within myself why it says that all should go, that we should all go into the world and preach, we should all go into the world and heal and deliver and set the captives free, but why that didn’t apply to me. Why was I not a part of all? And so that was such a just, such a internal wrestle. So I would spend years dialoguing with God and asking him to show me how he felt about me. Help me to understand. You know, show me in scripture where there’s covenant with women. And so if you were to tell me in scripture where you use women, of course he would. He always did. You know, it was amazing the way that he would show me these things that were being told I was being told were not true. But then the Lord would illuminate to me many, many instances in scripture, deborah being one of them, but honestly, the very one of the very few, you know that’s outwardly in front. The Lord began to show me Sarah. The Lord began to show me Mary Magdalene and Mary Bethany, who were beginning to show me hoodlum, or you know, the, the, the very unknown prophets and apostles that were female.

But it was this constant struggle, um, wayland, because I didn’t understand, I couldn’t, within myself, grasp what the Lord was showing me and what man was saying to me. And, of course, if you, you guys, know, like that’s why I wrote the book, permission to burn it came out of that struggle. Struggle, but, wayland, like, help us to understand, you know where, why is it so hard for men to acknowledge the move of God through women? I know there are scriptures that that, um, you know, paul wrote within scripture and we don’t really understand, we didn’t understand them at face value and we had to wrestle those things out. But but talk a little bit about that too. Like, encourage women and encourage men about your journey, and why is that so hard?

0:40:01 – Wayland Henderson
Yeah, there, there’s, uh, you know when I, when I think of, I mean what we’re really talking about is, um, cultures and mindsets that are are demonically inspired and they’re over generations and generations, where what is tolerated in one generation uh becomes resisted fully in the next one. And you start to see, over time, uh, when the, when the culture of the world becomes so patriotic, you know, and um, and and male dominated it, uh, it just hinders. And then when the church, uh and this is a broad stroke, this doesn’t mean everybody, obviously uh, when you don’t realize that there are, you know, places that you become friends with the world and then you become an enemy of the Lord. I think that’s one place that has been hard to break through over time. I believe the time we’re in now is, uh, the Lord is shaking. All of that Um, for me, I think again the, the, the journey that I’ve been on, um being a, the beauty of having a, a son and two daughters, and I think that combination alone you get to see both sides and um, and you see, uh, how women are treated, that are very strong, willed and spirit led, and it really takes the heart of a man to to embrace the cross shaped life, because what this makes me think of is Colossians too, when the, when Paul begins to start to talk about that.

Principalities and powers were disarmed by the cross. So let’s start there, when a church fully starts, to not be afraid that I’m going to embrace the cross shaped life in this area, but I don’t know about that area because I’m afraid of what that would look like. You know, it’s like every fiery woman is not a Jezebel. Okay, yeah, and then you. And again, here’s what happens in my context of my journey when I see a woman that is on fire, in the same time, I know that she’s been wounded by by church, I am confident enough to let her burn while at the same time being an extension of Christ through a male voice that’s not afraid of her fire but also is not afraid of her wounds.

That’s good, right what you said, right Um it’s key Not afraid of her fire but also not afraid of her wounds, because what I find with leaders is Is they’re they’re not just afraid of the fire, they’re afraid of the wounds and and, and they don’t understand how to set parameters right To put them in a healthy space when you are being an extension of a leader of Christ to them, so that the wounds of Christ can heal their wounds and they can build a trust, not just with Christ, but Christ being made known through men.

So good and that, that, every that there are men that are not there to hurt you, they’re not there to manipulate you, they’re not there to suppress you, but there are men that are there to see you heal, see you lift it up and seeing you push down into your purpose. And I found myself, along with my wife, and that’s the beauty of it is, I can Delivrate the, the, the ministry of women, along with my wife. They give both aspects of it, but I can fully begin to be a father, I can be a brother, oh, whatever. That is Because the time frame we’re in with reformation, um, especially when we were in wells, and there was a moment we were in wells and we were, we were at one of the churches I think we’re a pig spa with um, but Evan Roberts, he’d be built the, the iron gates, and the Lord started to talk about the blacksmith that were being forged there.

Yeah, and you know, we’re all sharing what the Lord is saying. And and I remember when the Lord started to talk to me about reformation and he said that there would be A need of the wells, of wells Would open up because intercession needed to match Like into the bible college in wells. But he also began to say at that time that there would be not only wells that opened up, but there would be women whaling.

0:45:52 – Tammie Southerland

0:45:53 – Wayland Henderson
And they would become a well, because there is a need of an outpouring that would wash away a refuge of lies, that would begin to Resign what the image of Christ looks like, both male and female, and I think there’s healing waters that the Lord desires to to, to pour, to pour out in those places, um, and there’s. There’s boldness and transparency and purity that pours out for both male and female. So there can be healthy spaces and places when we can move together and there can be healing for the things that have that have come and passed through, you know, male dominated leadership. And there can be places for not only women to move on stages, but women to move In whatever space or calls, without thinking that they’re less than will realize their purpose. I think that’s an aspect of it too.

0:46:55 – Tammie Southerland
So I have to.

0:46:56 – Wayland Henderson
I, there’s my rant.

0:46:58 – Tammie Southerland
I smile when you start talking about the gates and wells because I have a picture of you. I’m gonna have to throw this up on the post edit. Have a picture of you laying by that gate, wrecked in wells.

0:47:09 – Wayland Henderson
Yeah, yeah.

0:47:11 – Tammie Southerland
But, but the beauty, the beauty of that is I don’t know if you know this I’m actually reading a book caught talking. It’s about the women of wells and the, the intercession, and the travail that went forth from these women.

For even up to 40 years before the, the revival Hit, there were women that carried this travail, carried this intercession that actually birthed and there were many voices of women that aren’t necessarily we don’t really know about Whenever it comes to that revival, and so it’s interesting that you are having that, that encounter, that revelation, because there was actually a well there from Travelling women in well. Yeah.

0:47:52 – Wayland Henderson

0:47:52 – Tammie Southerland

0:47:53 – Wayland Henderson
I didn’t know that. That’s incredible and it’s beautiful.

0:47:56 – Tammie Southerland
Yeah, the Lord gave me a word. I can’t, I was gonna try to pull it up, but, um, I shared it this past weekend when I was in Virginia. But the Lord gave me a word, I think it was back in 2015. The same way that he birthed forth Um, the, the new covenant, the covenant of Christ, through the womb of a woman, so he would, at the end of the age, bring forth his return Through the womb of a woman, being the womb of travail, with the womb of intercession and even the voice that would trump it, and it is the wailing women. And so this is such an important conversation, it’s important restoration to have right now, and even in all that we’re saying, I think the key factor that we’re Um, we’re finding right now, it is the table, it is the, the relational connection. Uh, because you can’t discern, you know, what someone carries if you’re only looking at, looking at it through the lens of ministry, what we call ministry, if you’re only looking at it through the lens of how, how she sounds or he sounds on a platform. Um, and and honestly, I believe that’s why we have a lot of hurt and woundedness Is because the relational aspect of family within church family, our personal families, connecting with each other and family in general has been really non-existent For for many, many years, and so it’s easy for someone to assume Ill motives and call it discernment, which is a problem that we have in the charismatic media, in the charismatic world. We call our discernment, you know, we think our discernment is the word of the lord, when a lot of times it’s our just our wounds playing on one another’s wounds and we’re not willing to get to know one another, we’re not willing to come together and see, you know, what christ is placed within one another. And we’ve been saying this for years. Just for a lack of time I’m not going to really go into it, but years ago I was very involved in the reconciliation movement.

Whenever you basically, especially in the south, breaking down walls of division between, you know, white and black african-americans and you know, breaking down some of that in intercession and going and doing repentance and things like that in different places where horrible things have happened, and part of all of that reconciliation we would say the bloodline was washed away in the uh, I mean sorry, the um Dividing line was washed away in the blood of jesus. But but that wasn’t even the answer and I kept bringing this, this to the table the answer is not even. It is intercession, yes, but it’s. It is sitting at a table like how can you truly have unity if you’re not going to sit with one another and get to know one another and in one another’s family and in one another’s hearts and their intentions in the day to day? And so we really sure, you know, we kept doing reconciliation service after reconciliation service after reconciliation service, and we’d wash feet and we’d wash feet, but we’d still see racial division, racial, racial pension, and that was because we didn’t know how to sit together.

0:50:51 – Wayland Henderson

0:50:52 – Tammie Southerland
And I believe this is the same thing. I believe this is the next, the next phase in this restoration it is between male and female is when are we going to sit together?

0:51:03 – Wayland Henderson
So good, so good, so good. Yeah, because you, you have to hear each other’s heart.

Yeah in order to understand each other’s perspective. I think the the, the danger and, dare I say, the excuse that we have in in the larger charismatic movement Is we, we exchange, we’re getting to know somebody that with the phrases I know you by the spirit. Yeah, I said it, I said it Well, I know you by the spirit, so I don’t need to sit at the table to get to know you. You may discern some things, but you can’t get a download Of a history of someone’s life. If you’re not willing to sit at the table and get to know them and because we’re On this, I’m gonna run, run, run, but never sit and begin to be and learn with people Then you really don’t know why they are the way that they are. And I think, I think you’re, I think you’re right and I I agree that the culture has to shift In order for us to begin to sit and get to know who people are, especially mel and bima.

0:52:28 – Tammie Southerland
Right, so good, it’s all so good. We could just keep talking about it forever. I just appreciate you so much. I’m so thankful for you and and what you carry and your family and what god’s doing honestly right now. I think it’s a prophetic, just a prophetic picture of what god’s doing. I really do believe that there’s something even more. You know that we’ve not yet really tapped into, but you know even as I said, that with the racial reconciliation, I believe there is a great bridal reconciliation reconciliation happening, um, and and you know it’s like you said, the bride itself, you know, in the table of remembrance, has been dismembered and and there’s a beautiful Remembrance that god is positioning us for.

And it’s and again, like my whole statement earlier, was Can we do this in consecration and holiness? That shouldn’t even honestly be a question. Of course we can, you know, but we have to show a generation, the generation behind us, what it looks like to walk in Holiness of consecration and remember the body, pull the body back together, breakdown barriers, religion and fear Uh, that’s caused us from being able to, you know, emulate christ in the way that he wants to be Portrayed, the way that he wants to shine in the darkness, and you know the dark is getting darker, things are shaking and you know the kingdom’s unshakable.

So if we can believe that, do we really believe that, you know, we can come together and and and move in a power, for a lack of better word, and anointing that we’ve not yet moved in, and it’s not because it’s not been available.

0:54:06 – Wayland Henderson
Right, right, you know I’ve noticed over um, the lord will give signposts right on on what he does and and you have, you have to pick up those subtleties. So for me, in personal ways, even beyond of what I shared before, um, I would, I had this, um, I had this dream and I I we talked about this dream before, so I won’t get into all of it, but the part of the dream was I was in this house and I was holding this baby girl Remember that dream time and but I was holding the baby like she was mine, but she wasn’t. And there was all things about family that was happening in the house and we were getting ready for a meeting and there were, there were, there were kids that were standing on the window sills wanting to look out. So there’s, there’s something that was coming that the, the younger generation wanted to see. And I remember, I remember Lou Engel was was in the house and the first dream I ever had about Lou Engel and and you know he’s he’s rocking and we love you and he’s rocking and he’s giving this expression that he’s about to announce a movement. And you know I had conversations with this about our friends willing to have them for because they were in the dream.

I won’t get into all that, but one thing when I was talking to Will on the phone, I was sharing the dream with them and then to have them was listening and she had said she talked about the, the gathering that they were, they were having on the women’s movement, and the Wingo was coming in and and felt like there was something significant about the women’s movement and holding that baby, protecting what the Lord was going to do with women. And that part really really identified and I think that’s really a narrative of all we talked about before is there is something the Lord is birthing through women, not not to discount men, but to bring a fuller expression of what God is doing in the earth. And and you start to see that and I would find that I would go to different places being different nations and and and doing ministry and I would be drawn to to, to young girls that were the same age as my daughters and it was like there was something the Lord wanted to birth through them, through me as a father, you know, and I would always begin to grab where their family is and and set those parameters so they wouldn’t begin to think anything and you know so it was this station identification, you know, always moving wisdom and pure and purity, right and but we were. We were in Nicaragua a couple months ago and and there were these two young ladies that I begin to give one of the strongest, longest words about a Deborah anointing on them, that at first I was like Lord, why are, why am I giving such a strong word about a Deborah anointing on these two young, these two young ladies?

You know I said who, your who’s, your family or around you, and started to realize that Deborah and and Barack, barack, however, you know, you know you want to pronounce it tomato, tomato, but they, when they begin to come forth and Deborah has a judge, began to sit under the palm tree, palm trees, victory overcoming, and begin to judge at a time when there were, there was corruption.

You know, it’s like every time a judge come, they is were coming, deliverance, and then judge, believe and they go back into their ways that were evil and they go on the side of the Lord.

Well, there was a culture of evil that the Lord began to raise up Deborah and then here comes Deborah and Barack and begins to receive. God raised up Deborah at a time that he wanted to bring what was out of alignment back into alignment, and I, when I started to think about Lord. Why is there such a strong anointing to begin to release this to a younger generation? Because they need to have a different narrative than our generation. They need to have a different narrative and there needs to be a pulling out and a growing up of those hidden Debra’s that are, that are that are developing in secret places and dark spaces to be celebrated and begin to push forward. And Deborah and Barack, when you see the celebration, the song of Deborah and Barack has jail begins to take the tent peg. You know the to the head of their enemy and it says the princes of Isacar begin to follow Deborah.

0:59:41 – Tammie Southerland
Wow, yeah, yeah.

0:59:43 – Wayland Henderson
So there is. There is an Isacar anointing that I believe is upon women right now that are serving has assigned the times and what. The Lord. There is a transition that’s happening. There is a fuller expression of God’s glory and he is marking them, has a signpost of what he’s about to do.

1:00:05 – Tammie Southerland
And I want to say this, to respond, and I want to have you, I want to have you pray her a prophesy, however, you are led in. The beautiful thing I love and we’ve talked about this before about Deborah and Barack was that there was no competition there, even though you know I’ve heard it preached that it was a second. It was in girls. Ladies, I want you to hear me say this she was not God’s second choice.

Come on God’s second choice and it’s been preached to us, has been told to us that that she was God’s second choice and that there was a. It was a curse that the credit went to a woman when it came to Deborah and Barack. That is just not true. It is a lie. And it was actually God. Use Barack to elevate her voice and to identify her ability to hear from God. And in those days they consulted the judges, they consulted God and whether or not they would have victory in a battle. And so he was a humble man who was consulting the Lord and wanted victory in the battle in the same way that you know. You know, moses was like I’m not going to go unless you go. It’s the same thing like he was like I’m not going into battle unless you go with me, and he was saying unless the Lord goes with me, I’m not going and I don’t care who gets the credit.

And it’s so important for us to redeem that storyline because it was the. It’s the Barak that we need, it’s the Mordecai that we need. You know, it’s Jesus that we need that says no, you’re not a second thought, you’re not. You are born for such a time as this and it’s so important in this hour that we have men like you, wayland and Lou Engel and Will Ford and the others that are coming forward and say you know, we need the voice of the women in this hour and you’re not a second thought. You know that’s even been preached and I’ve heard I think it was Catherine Coleman that said you know, god chose so many other men and then he finally, you know, kind of fell on me because nobody else with the answer.

I love Catherine Coleman, but that’s just not true. That’s not how, that’s not our father, that’s not how he operates. And in this, this stories in the Bible, that that proved to us the truth. And this is the power of men and women running together, because we do need the strong voice of our husbands and our brothers to come alongside of us. My dad used to tell me this, you know, he used to tell me all the time you can do anything you put your mind to. I love, love how my dad always encouraged me. He really told me there was nothing that I could not do and that’s why it was so blind. I was so blindsided by religion because I’m like well, my dad said I could do whatever I wanted to.

1:02:39 – Wayland Henderson
You know that’s a great dad. That’s a great dad.

1:02:42 – Tammie Southerland
I didn’t have a grid for it. You know, I grew up with, you know strong brothers also and cousins, wayland, you know, and they didn’t they, they, they gave me a run for my money because they were guys, but they told me how to be strong. But but I grew up with that kind of encouragement and it’s so important to acknowledge that the significance of who you are in this and in men are in this, and so I know you’re going to run, but I want to get you to just go ahead and pray and just release whatever the Lord is speaking to you and thank you so much for you know everything and who you are in in all of this way. Look.

1:03:22 – Wayland Henderson
Amen. You know it’s an honor to be on here and with you and all that you represent, not just as a woman of God, but one who carries the fire of God and and just I’m thankful to run with you and all the Lord is doing with all of our crew and our families, and look forward to all the things the Lord is preparing for the future. And I want to speak to those women who think they’re off to the side or think that God has left them to the side, or that you missed the time in the season. I believe in the time that we are in. You are right, on time. You were with purpose and on purpose. God has appointed you not only for your generation, but to begin to break the barrier for those that come after you, that what the Lord will begin to do through you, that your ceiling will be the floor of the next generation, we believe, to begin to break cultural limitations within the body of Christ, so that the full expression of who God is will be made manifest through male and female. And, lord, I’m gonna, I’m gonna, I’m gonna prophesy and I want to speak to the God that is hidden many times in our culture, in women, that they would begin to shine bright.

The beauty of the nature of women is they are the glory of the man, which means that when you look at Adam and and, and it says that God pulled one man out of his side, so women become the greatest expression of the womb of the man. And the man is Christ Jesus, who is last Adam. So just as Adam was laid to a deep sleep and woman, the womb of the man, was pulled out of his side, jesus on the cross went into a deep sleep when he said that this finished and out of his side came the bride. And I believe that when you look at, when you, when you look at Eve, when it says the evening to help me says that he was, she would declare and prophesy and bring forth the hidden glory and Adam. And I believe there’s a, there’s a glory that can only be made known, in a certain dimension, by God beginning to move through women, and there’s a dimension of glory that can only be known by God moving through men. When you put male, the glory of God moving through male and the glory of God moving through female, then you have the fuller expression of what it means to bear the image of God.

I call forth that hidden glory and women right now to come forth at your time and hour to shine. As darkness increases, may the light and the knowledge of the glory begin to shine forth so that God would be made known. Let Debra’s come forth in Jesus name. Let Esther’s come forth at your time, at your season, at your hour. Let the whaling women begin to open up the wells of revival and awakening so that a world can see the full expression of who God is and Lord I rep. I also want to begin to say I repent, on behalf of male leaders, to many of you that have been hindered, that have been suppressed, that have have not been a in a space where you were able to burn and not been in the space where you’re able to heal. May the Lord begin to heal in such a way that his wounds would heal your wounds, so that you begin to move in a great expression of the victory that God has in his hour for you, in Jesus name hear me, yeah, yeah yeah yeah, thank you.

1:07:49 – Tammie Southerland
I just again, so thankful for you. This whole conversation was powerful. You guys thank you so much for joining us. Well, and I know you got to jump off. You got another thing to do. I’m just going to close it out, but, guys, I just thank you so much for joining us again being a part of this podcast. We just want you to know that you don’t have to burn along. We’re bringing brand new content to you in the season. We’re going to be talking more about intercession, more about the power of intercession and how that connects with the fivefold ministry and the prophetic gifts and all the things. We’re going to continue to move in the prophetic in this podcast, but we really wanted to bring that kind of teaching into you again. These I hope these sessions are blessing you, talking about men and women running together. They’re essential in this hour. So again, thank you so much for joining us and remember you don’t have to burn alone.

Prepare to challenge your traditional viewpoints as we delve into a thought-provoking conversation about breaking down religious barriers between men and women, guided by biblical examples and a quest for mutual understanding.

By the end of this episode, you’ll have an enlightened view of the call for women’s voices to be heard, the necessity for holy alliances between the sexes, and the crucial role of consecration and holiness in this often sensitive and controversial topic. We’ll journey through the maze of religion and its role in establishing divides between the genders, seeking the powerful freedom that Christ offers beyond the law of sin and death.

Our exploration will take us through the significance of purity, unity, and how Jesus pushed boundaries to set the weak free, referencing Mary of Bethany. We’ll also take a cue from Paul’s perspective on overcoming the law of sin and death.

Our discussion will further dissect the beauty of living a holy life, capable of overcoming sin, and the essence of consecration in maintaining purity. We’ll touch on God’s call to purity, the need for maturity, and the eradication of the little foxes that hinder us from forming a holy alliance with someone of the opposite sex. Wrapping up, we’ll reflect on the freedom from the law of sin and death, brought about by holiness and consecration, and the unity in God’s glory that calls for celebration.

Tune in for a transformative conversation that promises to reshape your understanding of this fundamental issue.

Where to dive in:

(0:00:00) – Religious Barrier Breakage Between Men and Women (9 Minutes)

We explore how God calls women’s voices forward in this hour, and how to break religious barriers between men and women. We discuss the importance of holy alliances between men and women, and how this is a very touchy subject that requires consecration and holiness. We look to scripture to see examples of holy alliances between men and women, such as Deborah and Barak, and how Deborah was a judge in Israel, appointed by the Lord to judge Israel and to be a prophetic voice. It is God’s design to have men and women be allies, and not adversaries.

(0:08:53) – Religion vs. Freedom in Christ (6 Minutes)

We {explore} the role of religion in separating men and women, and how freedom in Christ is greater than the law of sin and death. We {examine} the importance of purity, holiness, and consecration, and how men and women must come together to break down these religious barriers. We consider the example of Mary of Bethany and how Jesus pushed the boundaries of religion and set the weak free. We also look at Paul’s perspective on the law of sin and death and the gift of God’s life in the spirit.

(0:15:15) – Living in the Spirit, Overcoming Sin (10 Minutes)

We discuss the power of the law of sin and death and how it can lead to sin if not properly applied. We examine the importance of living a life of holiness and how to recognize and control our sinful passions. Examples are provided of how sin can be triggered by the law and how it can lead to adulterous relationships. The power of the Spirit to bring life and how it enables us to live a life of holiness and purity is explored.

(0:25:19) – Importance of Consecration in Affair Anatomy (13 Minutes)

We explore the importance of consecration and living a lifestyle of holiness as a way to defeat the strong desires of the flesh. We discuss how compromises and sin can lead to a string of affairs and how God calls us to holiness, not abstinence, as a way to maintain purity. We examine how an affair in ministry can devastate not only the person and their spouse, but also the family line, ministry calling, and children. We also emphasize the importance of having a moral compass and at least one trusted friend to keep each other accountable and protect each other’s purity.

(0:38:24) – God’s Call to Purity and Consecration (4 Minutes)

We examine the importance of walking in maturity and taking out the little foxes in our lives in order to be called into a holy alliance with someone of the opposite sex. We discuss how God is calling us to put away our condescending judgments and religious thinking, and to have friendship and even emotional and spiritual connections with one another. We look at how training ourselves in the secret place and the daily life, and putting aside every weight that hinders and the sin that so easily holds us back, is how we are able to walk in the spirit and the holiness that God has called us to. We discuss how we are called to bring back consecration and to stop pointing fingers at women and men and instead to lift each other up. Finally, we pray for deliverance from lustful thoughts and religious thinking.

(0:42:14) – Freedom and Unity in God’s Glory (1 Minutes)

We discuss how to live in freedom from the law of sin and death through holiness and consecration. We examine how to break down the barriers between men and women and foster a culture of unity and purity to raise the dead together at the end of the age. We explore the power of holiness and the importance of maturity in achieving this mission.

About the host:

Tammie Southerland is the host of Burning Messengers and the author of Permission To Bur: Breaking the Chains of Compromise from a Holy Generation. She is also a speaker and prophetic minister. She releases the sound authentic of revival and messages from heaven as she travels. Her lifestyle is one of prayer and digging deep into the Word of God, her desire is to releasing the Heart of The Father in these last days. She moves in power ministry and is known for releasing the Matthew 3:11 “baptism of Holy Fire” as she goes. ⁠

Buy Tammie’s Book “Permission to Burn: Breaking the Chains of Compromise from a Holy Generation” here⁠:

Burning Gear


0:00:00 – Tammie Southerland
Death comes through the recognition. Listen, if I know that coveting is wrong, then it will be a mirror to me so that my heart is pierced and, in the law of the spirit, I quickly am identifying covetousness in my heart, and so, as soon as the seed comes in, I begin to recognize it, because I know the law and, by the spirit, I do not want it. So therefore, I apply the blood of the lamb to the desire of covetousness and I am crucified with Christ, knowing he holds no good thing. He withholds no good thing from me when I walk up rightly before him, and so I’m able to put to death the deeds of the flesh and live in the life of the spirit. Hi guys, tammy Sutherland here coming to you with some more controversial topics.

I’m the host of the Burning Messengers podcast and I’ve really been on this topic lately about God calling women’s voices forward in this hour, and part of that very, very important message is being able to run together, men and women running together in holy alliances. And today that’s what we’re gonna talk about breaking religious barriers between men and women, why this is so important, and I’m gonna hit some of the controversial subjects that we’ve probably this probably actually caused us to stumble in the past, more than we realize it. So thank you again for joining me. My name is Tammy Sutherland and listen. The whole point of the show, the whole point of the podcast, the ministry is so that you know that you don’t have to burn alone. Our topic, our message, our heart is purity, it’s consecration, it’s fire and so anything that we share here. Please do not hear what I’m not saying. My goal is always to call you higher into consecration and holiness and purity, but I want you to understand the power of God that is within you, to set you apart, to consecrate you and call you to walk in fullness of who he is.

All right, I’m gonna pray because this is actually a very touchy subject. I don’t need any of the enemy or backlash jumping into this subject, because I do not. I’m not so prideful as to think that we can’t. I can’t fall into temptation. I’m gonna talk about that in the show. So, father, I thank you so much for the opportunity to share your message, your heart, with the people today. Gotta pray that your words would come forth with purity, that nothing would be twisted or misunderstood in any way. I bind the powers of darkness that may try to twist or fashion or form this message into a license to sin. And anyway, god, I thank you that you are here, you are with us and you’re setting us free, you’re fortifying us in this hour and calling us up higher in Jesus’ name. Lord, would you raise up messengers of purity, would you call us into the holiness that you created us for All? Right, if you see me looking down, I’m looking at my notes just so you know. So this is a very important subject matter. My notes just went somewhere and I wanna I do wanna talk about it with all, with the fear of the Lord.

Okay, so we are human beings. We were born into sin, with the seed of sin in us, right, and so what? We have to understand that, when we were set free by the blood of Christ, that we were set free from the curse that resulted from Adam and Eve’s sin, and so the part of the reason that we have such a struggle, with men and women running together in holy alliances, is it’s because of the seed of sin, but it’s also because of the spirit of religion, and so we’ve gotta understand that Jesus, when he came, he set us free from the law of sin and death unto righteousness in Christ. It’s the blood of the Lamb and the word of his testimony is identifying with the cross, shape life. It’s identifying with him in his sacrifice that causes us to walk holy and to walk pure. It’s only by the blood that we can even begin to walk in the way that he’s called us to walk. But we are supposed to walk without sin, we’re supposed to walk in purity, and scripture says in Genesis 318, the Lord said it’s not good for a man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him. Yes, this scripture is about marriage, but it’s not all about marriage. It’s about the alliance between man and woman, because we have different parts to play in the complete understanding or the complete representation of the gospel of Jesus Christ, of the character of God, as we come together and we work together.

I love Chris Valentin. He’s got a book it’s called Fashion to Rain. He’s been a great proponent for men and women running together in ministry. He’s been great to kind of bring women back into the place where they have a voice and to kind of pull down some of these barriers or some of these misrepresentations that religion has tried to portray onto women and men at the same time, and this is what Chris Valentin says. He says it is God’s design for men and women to be allies, not adversaries. I want you to hear that again. It is God’s design for women and men and women to be allies and not adversaries. The Bible is rich with examples of holy alliances between them, working side by side to fulfill God’s purpose. This is so important, this word holy alliance and we can see this throughout Scripture with Deborah and Barak. We’re going to look at that for just a little bit.

But Deborah and Barak Deborah was a judge. She was the judge in Israel. It says that men came to her because they knew that she heard from the Lord. She’d been appointed by the Lord to judge Israel. What does that mean? That means that she was a prophet. That means that in that time they had judges and not kings, and the judges actually were the prophetic voice. They would seek the counsel of the Lord and the Lord would give his counsel and the people would come to them in order to hear into the counsel of the Lord. That even included war. It included whether or not they were going to have victory in war. So Deborah was a person in the hour in which she lived, that her husband understood and realized the anointing of God on her life and that men would come to her because they needed to be able to hear from the Lord. And there was a holy alliance between Barak and Deborah. We can read about that in just a little bit later, but before we jump into that, I want to talk about this men and women together Is it dangerous or is it transformative?

So this is where some of the stuff is going to get a little bit, probably new to some people that are listening. I believe it’s going to set some of this free, because the problem is not when men and women walk together. The danger is not us being together. The danger is sin, and it’s also the law. Listen to me, it’s religion and it’s sin that causes men and women to stumble.

Okay, Galatians three, 28 says there’s either June or Gentile slave nor free, nor is there male or female, for you are all one in Christ. I want you to stop right there and listen to me. Listen, this is so important because when we are in heavenly realms together I’m not even talking about when we go to heaven when we are in heavenly realms together, we are one in Christ. There is a dynamic unity in the presence of God that we are called to often talk about, where we are seated with him in heavenly realms. We are called to be one in him in those heavenly realms. We’re going to share revelation together, we’re going to share emotion together, we’re going to share the feelings of God together in those realms. And if we don’t understand that the feelings of God, the revelation of God in themselves, as we share them together, are not sinful, then we’ll actually stumble into sin. Because what Christ blood did was removed, the dividing line between us and him and us and one another, and so we’re able to be seated together in revelatory realms, gaining an understanding of Christ. And it says where two or more gather together, there he is in the midst of them. That’s both male and female.

You see, religion actually separates men and women from prayer and intercession. You can look at the Wailing Wall in Israel. The men and women are separated. It’s because religion is still in act right there. Religion, the basically saying no, don’t touch this constantly, is actually going to spurn us towards sin instead of the freedom in Christ by the blood of the lamb, where we are one in him, that causes us to look at him and go above that, to sit with him and revelate and understand who he is, together so that we can grow together, because you have a part and I have a part, and there’s a totally different way that my brother will see and understand the revelation of God, even if I’m in the same encounter as he is. And we need each other’s part and peace. And there’s something powerful about intercession when men and women are together in the same room, in the same revelation, in the same outcry for Jesus, the outcry for what the spirit is saying in the earth. And so if we aren’t careful we’ll separate and we’ll completely miss the point, because we’re more afraid of our flesh than we are in trust of the spirit of God. And to that point, Galatians 516 says so if I walk in the spirit, I will not gratify the desires of the flesh. Romans 8 2 says for the law of the spirit is life, which is in Christ Jesus, but the law of our new beginning or new being I’m reading the amplified has set you free from the law of sin and death. So the law will drive you to sin and the spirit will set you free. So that’s Romans 7. We’re going to read that in just a second, but I’m going to pause right here. So the law of sin and death will drive you to sin, but the law of the spirit will set you free.

I want to take you back for just a moment to whenever I was a young, 20 year old woman coming out of the world, and my experience with the world was pretty traumatic. My testimony is pretty wild, and the number one thing, the most important thing to me, was my purity. It was, it was consecration and it was purity, because that is something that God gave back to me, the very thing whenever I was in more of a religious mindset, the very thing that I did not want to do, I continued to do. When I was in a religious mindset, I was set free from when I got baptized in the Holy Spirit and fire. And so when I got baptized in the Holy Spirit and fire, the fire of God came upon me and I began to be desperately longing to be intimate with him, and I knew that sin and I knew that anything unholy in me would separate me from him. Therefore, purity and consecration was and still is forever my longing and my goal.

And so when I began to enter into a courtship with my husband. The number one thing I told him is if you really truly love me, you will protect my purity, you will call me into who God has created me to be and the voice that God has called me to be, and you will not defile me with the desires of the flesh. And I know like that’s not popular in these days, that’s not popular now, but I want to tell you something that that statement to my husband was a first Corinthians 13 reality of love. For love is patient, love is kind, it’s not jealous. And so if we truly love one another, and in Christ, as men and women, when we get to run together, we must love one another, we must fall in love with one another and we’re gonna fall in love with one another, but it’s a holy love and that love will be for the purity and the consecration and the holiness of my brother and the holiness you brothers, morticons, that are standing there and calling women forth, the purity and holiness of your sister. And so in internally, we will have to wrestle the the flesh and call it to be put to death. I’m just getting very real with us, and so some of the things that we have put in place in the past boundaries in order to keep sin from happening in ministry, actually is causing sin to happen. Because we’re not calling people to consecration, we’re not calling people to holiness, we’re calling people to behavioral modification.

And listen. In the Middle East, women are covered from head to toe. Many oftentimes you can only see their eyes. And these women are still raped, they’re still abused sexually and they’re blamed for it. And the reason that their rape or their their abuse sexually is not because they were seductive, it’s not because they were uncovered, it’s because of sin. Sin is the issue. Sin driven within the heart of man causes you to chase after the deeds of the flesh, whereas the spirit of God indwelling in us should call us into consecration, purity, into a higher level. It says no good thing. Well, he withholds from those who walk up brightly before him. So righteousness begins to be our goal, and trusting and believing that God is the good thing.

It says that Mary and we’ll talk about her in just a minute Mary of Bethany sat at the feet of Jesus and Jesus said that Mary had chosen the good part, the part that could not be taken away from her in comparison to Martha’s anxiety. And so the good part, the good thing that God has promised us, is found in the freedom of the spirit. And, by the way, it was taboo for Mary to be sitting at the feet of Jesus. It was taboo for her to even be in the room. That’s why there was so much tension there, and Jesus often, very often, pushed the boundaries of religion and set the most weak free, those who were deemed unworthy of even being in the presence of a teacher or a rabbi. He set them free because the law of sin is death, but the gift of God is is righteousness right. The law of sin is death. The gift of God brings life, and it’s life in the spirit. Okay, and so let’s talk about Paul for just a minute. The law drives us to sin, but the spirit drives us to holiness.

I’m gonna read a good portion of scripture right now. Just be patient with me, okay. Okay, so it says in Romans 7 for while we are in the flesh, the sinful passions which are aroused by the law we’re at, work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we’ve been released from the law, having died to that which we were bound, so that we will serve the newness of the spirit and not the oldness of the letter. Let me explain something to you a dead man can’t lust. A dead man can’t lust. If the lust rises up, then then you’re not dead, and you’ve got to find out why. What was the open door? And shut it quickly, because it says that we’re dead. We’ve been crucified with Christ. It’s not him, it’s not I that live, but he who lives in me, and I’m a living sacrifice.

I recently posted on living martyrs. Yes, it is sometimes more difficult to be a living martyr than it might be to be a momentary lay down my life, because I will have to continually live in the spirit where I’m putting to death the deeds of the flesh. And so what shall we say then? Is the law sin? May it never be. On the contrary, I would not have come to no sin except through the law, for I would not have known about covenate coveting if the law had not said you should not covet. But sin, taking the opportunity through the commandment produced in me, coveting of every kind apart from the law, sin is dead and died in this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me. For sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and though it killed through it, it killed me. So which is good, that which is good, came and caused me death. May it never be. Rather, it was sin in order that the commandment of sin would become utterly sinful.

Okay, listen to this. Death comes through the recognition. Listen, if I know that coveting is wrong, then it will be a mirror to me so that my heart is pierced and in the law of the Spirit, I quickly am identifying covetousness in my heart, and so as soon as the seed comes in, I begin to recognize it, because I know the law and, by the Spirit, I do not want it. So therefore, I apply the blood of the Lamb to the desire of covetousness and I am crucified with Christ, knowing he holds no good thing. He withholds no good thing from me when I walk uprightly before Him, and so I’m able to put to death the deeds of the flesh and live in the life of the Spirit. But if all I have is the law, I’m going to stare at an item.

Let’s take, for example I’m going to sit in ice cream in front of a child and I’m going to tell a child don’t touch the ice cream and I’m going to walk away and I tell the child, say, over and over and over, it is sin for me to touch the ice cream, it is sin for me to touch the ice cream. It is sin for me to touch the ice cream, but the ice cream is within touching distance of the child, who literally cannot wait to touch the ice cream. And so so the law now has become a way of sin for the child. Eventually the child’s going to touch the ice cream. You can’t say don’t touch that, don’t touch that, don’t touch that, don’t touch that, don’t touch that.

The ice cream in and of itself was not sin, but the continual repetition of behavioral modification in one who is not mature causes sin to take place, because it’s actually the seed of sin that’s been planted. And instead, if I’m going to take an ice cream and I’m going to sit it in front of a grown adult who has a conviction about their health and has an issue with lactose, I can tell this friend, this adult, this mature one, don’t eat the ice cream. For when you eat the ice cream it’s going to hurt your stomach and it’s going to cause you to mess up the rest of your day. As a matter of fact, when I get back, I’ve got some dairy-free ice cream for you. Just don’t touch it.

Right now, the person, the one who is mature, is not going to stare at the ice cream and repeat over and over Don’t touch it, don’t touch it, don’t touch it. There doesn’t need to be a wall between them and the ice cream. As a matter of fact, there’s a deeper conviction, there’s a greater desire for cleanliness, right. There’s a greater desire for that which will not turn that person’s stomach. They know that there is something greater coming on the other side. This is the reason that the law causes sin, but the spirit brings life. And so some of the boundaries that we’ve put in place for example, the side hug boundary, or don’t be in the same room together boundary, or I’ll tell you a story in just a minute some of these boundaries for those that are not mature, have not been taught to fall in love with Christ and protect their brother and sister’s calling to protect their brother and sister’s purity, even after marriage.

Yes, some of these things are actually why adulterous relationships have taken place. I’ve got an example. We all know Todd Bentley from Lakeland Revival. He fell into a string of affairs and I’m not downing Todd, I’m using him as example. But before he was found out in a string of affairs there was sin that was already taking place in other areas of his life. Now I’ve heard that since then he has come into a conviction and under a mentorship and his heart has been turned and he desires holiness and purity in his heart, now by the spirit. But before that there were listen it still was the sin of drinking and partying and compromises that led way to adulterous affair after adulterous affair. It wasn’t the side hug, it wasn’t being in the same room, it wasn’t because the girl was pretty and she had an anointing. It was more going on under the scenes, behind the scenes.

Christians, our calling is to holiness, righteousness and justice. This is what we’ve been called to and we’ve been called to run together as men and women. Bill Johnson says it this way the belief that men and women working together is inherently dangerous to each other is a distortion of God’s intention. Unity in Christ is transformative, not threatening. What is threatening for us is the legalistic mentality that actually drives within us more behavioral modification than the love for God and the desire to actually love our brother and sister enough and ourself and our relationship with God and our spouse and our children. We can keep going. The desire to love our neighbor as ourself is not truly been fashioned in us if we have to continually say don’t touch that, don’t do this, don’t go there. It’s not the don’ts but it’s the do’s, because no good thing will he withhold from those who walk uprightly before you. So uprightness, righteousness, walking upright is the key. Desire for holiness and desire for purity is the key.

Listen, some of us, men and women, god’s calling us into a holy alliance. We’re gonna raise the dead together. We’re gonna be in nations alone, sometimes together, and we’re gonna have to love God more than we love the flesh. As a matter of fact, some of us God’s gonna consecrate and he’s gonna set apart, and the enemy is going to try to attack the mind. That’s what he does. But you’ve been trained. You’ve been trained long before now to put to death the deeds of the flesh.

This sifting is just an opportunity to find where the gateway was. Where’s the place that God wants to heal? Where is the where you feel like you’ve been wronged or liked the sin that came upon Adam and Eve in the garden? Was it because they touched the tree of knowledge and good and evil. That wasn’t what happened. God didn’t say don’t touch it. That’s what Satan said. God said don’t eat it. God said don’t consume it, don’t be consumed by it. Listen, he said you have access to all of this, everything in the garden you have access to. And the trick was this. The question was is God gonna withhold a good thing from me? Is there something God’s withholding from me? That window, that opening of doubt and questioning the good thing that God would withhold, is where the doubt, where it’s where the open door to sin came in. And so what we do in this time, as God’s called us to run a holy alliances. If we begin to struggle in our minds, we capture the thought immediately. We submit it to Christ in the blood of the lamb.

Listen, we live lifestyles of intercession, and I love this song. I’ve been listening to you recently Fortify my Faith by Mercy Culture. It says we have a high priest that prays for us. Jesus is constantly an intercession for us and it’s talking about the sifting of Peter. Listen, the sifting is for a purpose and it was preparing Peter to be a dead razor. He was preparing Peter to be one who would lay down his life for Christ and listen. They were gonna all run together Him, Mary, all of them. They were gonna run together.

So the mind that is set on the flesh is death Romans 8, 6 through 10, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind that is set on flesh is hostile to God, for it does not subject itself to the law. It is not even able to do so, for those who are in the flesh cannot please God, but if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him. If Christ is in you, though, the body is dead because of sin, you yet the Spirit is alive, alive because of righteousness. Romans 8, 6 to 10. And so I’ve talked to you a little bit.

I said I was going to talk about the anatomy of an affair. This is so important as we go into these conversations. I did talk to you a little bit, for example, about Todd Bentley. Again, no shade on him in the inner workings of his heart throughout that. But we do want to use this example, because the things that led into the string of affairs was already compromises and sin. There was already God, though God was using him powerfully in the Spirit. With the gifts, there was a compromise with allowing sin into his life and I cannot put this. I cannot stress this more in this hour.

God’s called us to consecration. If you aren’t living a lifestyle of consecration, you’re not going to be able to defeat these strong desires of the flesh. When God calls you into more, he wants more of you personally and not again like don’t take this as arrogance or pride. Personally, I’ve been in this thing for 23 years, since I literally have not had a drink in 23 years and I’m not going to tell you that there’s not been many times that it’s crossed my mind as to why. Because drinking in and of itself is not a sin, right, why can’t I have a drink? The tea totalling in itself is not what has kept me from drinking, it’s not what has kept me holy and pure. It’s been my consecration unto the Lord that I don’t want to have a, I don’t want to take of that cup until I’m with him in eternity. And there’s a consecration between he and I where I have resisted the flesh and even the inner workings of the conversations in my mind that have tried to cause me to compromise that conviction Again.

I’m not telling you if you, if you have a glass of wine, I’m not telling you that that sin. I’m telling you that God is trained to be in consecration and purity and holiness by this one particular thing that he’s told me not to partake of. He doesn’t tell me don’t touch a wine bottle. He’s told me do not consume it because I am inviting you into the lifestyle of holiness. And so when I come into a place where I may be tempted in my mind and initial thought with other sinful things, I can take those thought captive. I know how to make them come into obedience to Christ. I know how to go into intercession. I know how to go to trusted friends, those who I know that I can tell you know what the struggle may be in my heart and my mind and they’re going to pray for me. We’re immediately going to dismantle it. They’re going to be real with me. Where was the open doors? Not this person’s fault or that person’s fault. What is God trying to deal with you on right now? What particular area of your heart and life do you still feel there might be some unforgiveness? Where’s an open door where you feel lack and you don’t actually believe that God will give you supply to you according to his riches and glory. Like what are you trying to get right now? Okay, you need friends like that in your life.

So affairs and ministry can be devastating Absolutely, and this is another part of this. The anatomy of an affair with ministry has lost sight of the devastation that it would cause. It’s not just going to devastate the person that you’re having an affair with and their spouse is going to devastate your family line. It’s going to devastate your children. It’s going to devastate your family outside of your children. It’s going to devastate your children’s children. It’s going to devastate the person that you are tempted to have an affair with in their ministry calling. It’s going to devastate your ministry.

Calling All of these things. If you truly love one another, you’re going to hold each other to an accountability of holiness and purity. If I love you, the same way that I told my husband before we married, if you truly love me, you will not even try to take away my purity, and this is what God is calling us to. I want to protect your purity. I want to say this just to my brothers I want to protect your purity, I want to run with you with power and I want you to protect my purity, I want you to protect my husband, I want you to protect my children, I want you to protect my future, I want you to protect my voice, and the same I will commit to do for you, to protect you and your wife and your children.

And your voice and your annoying thing and your calling this is the upward calling of Christ, and so again, often in a fair ministry, reveals the insufficiency of external, internal and external issues that are going around with the person a lack of a moral compass and a lack of accountability. Hear me when I say this there’s not going to be a crowd of people that you can trust, but you need at least one. And so if an affair happens, it’s because the moral compass got off and it’s because when you conceived of the thought, you dwelled on it and you didn’t confess it to your brother, confess one to another, that you may be healed. So I want you to hear me we’re not going to be immune to thoughts. You’re not all day long. All day long, you don’t turn off your TV, turn off your phone, turn off your radio or put a blinder on your eye, and not drive down the road because you may have a thought. You learn how to take every thought captive unto immediate, to Christ, that the thought tries to form into something more. You go to someone that you’re accountable to, and if you are a spirit-filled believer, a mature believer, you need to have somebody in your life that’s going to take you through deliverance and take you through inner healing on a consistent basis. This is how we’re going to run together at the end of the age. This is how we’re going to break labels, laws and religious controls.

So Luke 7.36-50, the story of Mary anointing Jesus’ feet with her tears and her hair. Jesus not only allows her to do this, but he tells everyone else to leave her alone. This is an act of devotion. It says that she didn’t cease to kiss him. So I’m going to stop right there.

This was a man. Jesus, fully man, fully God, tempted and tried in every area. Allows a woman to come into the room, take down her hair, which was taboo, wait on his feet, kiss him, wash his feet with his tears. A woman who most likely had a string of backstory of adulterous relationships and prostitution we often hear, even avoid the prayers of evil. Jesus wasn’t afraid. He was not afraid of what was taking place here.

As a matter of fact, I truly believe that this could have possibly been one of the areas that Jesus had a temptation or trial in that he defeated, because he defeated the enemy in every single area. Every area you and I could be tested in, jesus was tested in and came out victorious. That’s why he was able to die and be raised again, because Satan found nothing in common with him, and it wasn’t because he made himself walls around him and separated himself from everything sinful. As a matter of fact, he inserted himself into everything sinful and took on the sin of the world so that you and I could be set free from the bondage of sin and death. And so, in this atmosphere, jesus is literally being touched by, kissed by and wept on by a woman who, I am sure, was madly in love with him in a holy, beautiful, holy way. She was. She’s found at the foot of the cross and is death. She’s found at the tomb. There was nothing sexual going on there, but Jesus wanted to prove that her extravagance on him would be an example of the true fullness of the gospel, wherever it was preached, even until the end of the age.

I know some of you are going to throw stones at me, but I’m telling you it says. This is what he says. Therefore, I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven for. She has loved much, but he who is forgiven little loves little. He’s talking about how much she loves. She’s desperate lovesick for him, but the relationship remained Emotional and spiritual, holy, holy alliance. It was a holy alliance there and it did not become defiled and there was no sin found in him.

The same thing with the woman at the well. He wasn’t supposed to be talking to her. The disciples have an issue with that. The same thing when she was at his tomb. He takes her and he sends her to be the first evangelist to tell the man that he has risen. They have a problem with that. He doesn’t care. He does not care.

This is a quote from the other half of the army. We must confront these labels, laws and religious control that we have confined men and women to. It’s time to break free from these limitations and embrace the true power of the gospel. John 4 27 says just then his disciples returned and were surprised to find him talking to a woman. But no one asked what do you want or why were you talking with her? He knew that they were asking the question, but his response to them was basically get back. I’m breaking down walls right now because it’s not good for me and to be alone. I’m going to send her out. Lou Engel said this Jesus himself shattered every religious safeguard when it came to men and women interacting.

The encounters with Mary Magdalene, mary Bethany and the unnamed woman who anointed his feet, which I think that was Mary, showed his radical approach to relationships, setting an example that we should follow. This is profound. I know we’ve gone a little over 30 minutes. I said I was going to go a little bit deeper into Deborah and Barak, but this is profound. Jesus’s example is no greater example, and we have to understand that.

The holy alliances that God is bringing forth in this hour will require us to walk holy. They will require us to be accountable. They will require us, when I say accountable, accountable to the word, accountable to the spirit, accountable to intercession, accountable to one another, having nothing, letting the enemy find nothing in us, and pursuing with everything we have a heart that is open, pure and consecrated. The goal or the aim is not to see how many different boundaries I can come up with. Not that boundaries are bad, but the law brings death. The goal is something greater.

Jesus said if you looked at a woman lustfully, you’ve committed adultery in your heart. This wasn’t to condemn them and bring them into condemnation. It was to bring attention to the heart, where the law has been written upon our heart and by way of the spirit we cast out any sin that may try to enter in. Thank God for the blood of the Lamb. Thank God for the blood of the Lamb. He’s going to call us in this hour to greater consecration, greater purity.

I want to tell you prophetically, there’s a sifting coming and I believe there is a sifting here. That sifting is going to cause us to be able to walk where God’s called us to walk. Do not be afraid when the sifting comes. Do not be afraid when the thoughts come. Take the thoughts captive, bring them to obedience to Christ. Find someone that you know that you can be accountable to.

On the very clear flip side of this, I want you to know that if you’re not walking in maturity and you’ve not taken out the little foxes, the little things in your life up to this point, god’s not going to call you into a holy alliance with someone of the opposite sex. He’s just not going to, and so I want to go ahead and expose that right now. This is something God’s doing with mature believers in this hour. He’s going to cause us to put away our condescending judgments and religious thinking and call us up higher. He’s going to actually call us to run together and be holy and pure in it. He’s going to call us to have friendship and even emotional and spiritual connections with one another, deep spiritual connections with one another and to cast out any fleshly desires.

It’s harder to be a living martyr sometimes, but that’s what we’re called to, because the greater reward is to see my brother completely running in the holiness and purity and the thing that God has called him to. The greater reward is for my brother to be able to lift me up and be able to set me in a place where my voice is loud. The greater reward is to see the family whole and the children and the children’s children walking in the power and authority that’s been given to them through the gospel that they can walk without sin. How do we do it? By being trained. Train yourself in the secret place, train yourself in the daily life, train yourself when no one sees to put aside every weight that hinders and the sin that so easily holds you back, and run the race and do not grow weary and stop fearing, but walk in the spirit.

God’s calling us to a mighty, mighty hour where men and women are going to run together and we’re going to show a generation what it looks like to walk in consecration and purity. We’re going to bring back consecration in this. We’re going to stop pointing fingers at women and calling them Jezebel’s because they’re powerful. We’re going to start lifting them up and saying be a voice and I’m going to protect my heart and protect yours. I’m going to stop pointing our fingers at men and saying you’re just nothing but lust and you can’t be around me because that’s all you’re going to think about. That’s a lie from the pit of hell, because if you’re consecrated brother, if you’re consecrated friend, you’re taking thoughts captive and you’re doing everything in your power to walk in the spirit because you’re in love with the Lamb. That’s what he’s called us to.

So let me pray for you right now, in the name of Jesus. I thank you for those that are watching God. I pray that right now, you deliver people, even now, from lustful thoughts, that you deliver us right now from the religious thinking, from the, where we’ve tried to return back to the law in the same way that Paul was, was rebuking the Galatian church for going back to the law. Lord, even right now I believe you’re rebuking us and you’re saying there’s a greater, there’s a better way. Don’t go back to the circumcision of the flesh, go to the circumcision of the heart. If you stare at it and say you can’t touch it, you’re going to touch it. But if you know the beauty of what is on the other side, the goodness of the Lord that holds nothing back from those that walk up right before him, you will gloriously raise your hands and be able to walk in the power of God, even in the mid temptation. He’s calling us higher. I’m telling you, he’s calling you to purity and I command right now, every impure thought to leave your mind, anything that’s tried to come in and weave itself into your mind. We command that seed to even be cast out right now in Jesus name, where the enemy said you can’t touch it, because God is even withholding from you a good thing and you’re driven by Don’t touch it, don’t touch it, don’t touch it.

I break that voice right now, in the name of Jesus, and I tell you you got freedom. You have freedom. Don’t be consumed. You have freedom to partake of everything that’s life and godliness. There’s no lack. There’s no lack in Jesus name. There’s no lack in him. I love you. We’re living in a great, powerful hour. I’m so thankful for my brothers that are lifting up the voices of women in this hour. I’m so thankful for my sisters that are being set free and not worried about being in competition with men or being in competition with one another. All that’s being broken and we’re running together in holiness, purity and the glory of God with fire. Listen, we’re going to raise the dead together. Guys, we’re going to do this. We’re going to do this at the end of the age and we’re going to do it with consecration in Jesus name.

Did you miss my recent LIVE video?

Watch or listen to it here on the Burning Messengers podcast. Prepare to embark on a spiritual journey that illuminates the essential role of steadfast messengers of God’s truth. This potent discussion will enrich your faith journey as we explore a powerful dream, emphasizing the necessity for valiant individuals to stand up, willing to risk their reputation for gospel truth. Drawing wisdom from the Biblical characters Esther and Mordecai, we’ll underscore the need for genuine prayer and intercession, confronting fear, and embracing our heavenly call during a crisis.

You will uncover the significance of enlightening our children about their identity in Christ and the verity of God’s Word, delving into spiritual warfare’s essence and the necessity of empowering our kids to face it fearlessly. We’ll share parallels from Esther’s readiness to surrender her life for her people to stress the potential sacrifices for Christ’s cause. Wrapping up, we’ll explore fasting’s transformative power, prompting listeners to integrate this spiritual discipline into their lives. This stirring conversation promises a deeper comprehension of your divine calling. So, fasten your seatbelt, tune in, and elevate your faith walk!

Where to dive in:

(0:00:00) – Dream of Esther and Mordecai’s Generation Raising up burning ones, overcoming fear and Jezebel, prophetic intercession, and living a lifestyle of prayer.

(0:14:17) – Teaching Children Truth and Holiness Mordecai’s call to lay down her life is discussed, emphasizing identity, truth, prayer, and intercession to equip kids to stand against spiritual warfare.

(0:21:11) – The Call to Rise and Speak We discuss Esther’s call to action, Mordecai’s plea, and the need for bold voices in positions of influence, exploring the power of intercession and fasting.

About the host: Tammie Southerland is the host of Burning Messengers and the author of Permission To Bur: Breaking the Chains of Compromise from a Holy Generation. She is also a speaker and prophetic minister. She releases the sound authentic of revival and messages from heaven as she travels. Her lifestyle is one of prayer and digging deep into the Word of God, her desire is to releasing the Heart of The Father in these last days. She moves in power ministry and is known for releasing the Matthew 3:11 “baptism of Holy Fire” as she goes. ⁠

Buy Tammie’s Book “Permission to Burn: Breaking the Chains of Compromise from a Holy Generation” here⁠: ⁠


0:00:00 – Tammie Southerland
And we’ve got to know that, listen, we’re on the target, we’re on the radar, and so no longer do we get to edit the truth, no longer do we get to edit the message. It’s not pretty, it’s not nice, it’s not, it can’t be boxed up in something flowery. Hi guys, my name is Tammy Sutherland and I am here with the Burning Messengers podcast, excited today to talk to you about a dream that the Lord gave me just a week and a half ago concerning the rise of voices, certainly like Esther, that proclaim in this hour if I perish, I perish, and also the importance of the mordecai, the generation of men that would actually call women to be a voice in this hour, willing to sacrifice their platforms or the reputation, because, in truth, we really are in a time where we need to understand that if we die, we die because we need to rise up and be a voice in this hour. Thank you so much for joining me Again. I am Tammy Sutherland, I’m the host of the Burning Messengers podcast and if you’re a burning messenger, you’re really going to enjoy this. Maybe you don’t know you are, but what we’re praying for is for God to raise up a billion burning ones all across the earth that are willing to be a voice, willing to preach the message of the gospel, the truth of Jesus Christ, and live in a lifestyle of prayer, in intercession, without compromise. So again, thank you so much for joining me.

I’m just going to start out this podcast real quick with prayer, because that’s what we’re about Jesus at the center. So, father, we thank you so much for the opportunity to share your word. God, I ask you that you would put me on like a coat, that you would wear me, that it just would only be my skin, that there would be nothing between me and you, that every word is your words, and if it’s not your word, let it fall on deaf ears. But if it is your word, as it says in your word, that it would run swiftly and it would accomplish what you’re sending it forth to accomplish. And, laura, open the hearts of all those that are listening, that are watching and that will watch later, god, that you would do a dynamic work in their souls. God, that you would overcome any wrestle with the flesh and learn that you would help them to be who you created them to be in this hour, lord, not just looking for a platform but willing to be a voice at the end of the age who will lay down their life for the truth of who you are and for those who need to know you. All right in Jesus’ name, amen and amen Again. I’m so thankful for you, you guys that are joining me now, you guys that will join me later.

We are in an hour of urgency, which we all know fully. Right, we know we’re in an hour of urgency. Yesterday I went live with prayer and helping us to understand how to pray in an hour of crisis, and some of us have been sitting in a place of just groaning inwardly, mourning and not really understanding how Go back and look for that podcast or that broadcast that I went live both on Facebook and YouTube, talking about how to pray when we have no words to pray in an hour of crisis. I even use exemplify we step into the prophetic strategic intercession in that live and go into the area that there’s so much tension and we pray into that area very specifically. You’re going to grow in that it’s so important, even as the weeks and months to come, we’re going to teach more and more how to grow in that prophetic, apostolic, strategic intercession for you to really know how to move heaven and earth with your prayers. And so here we go.

This is very powerful, this dream that I had. I’m going to start out with it. About two and a half weeks ago, we did a gathering. It was really powerful the tabernacle on the table, truly outdoors, camping, worshiping and setting a table to feast. Together around this opportunity to partake of Christ, to be transformed by him, really put into action the things that we’ve been prophesying that the Lord is doing. Gathering us together, not around tables of transaction that have to do with rubbing elbows and ministry or seeing how we can build our own thing, but gathering together, looking each other in the eyes, consuming the body and the blood of Christ being transformed and transfigured so that we could be faithful witnesses in the age that we live in.

And so I have this dream and it’s vivid. It starts out and there is a young lady with me, a Gen Z young lady. She’s a house of prayer warrior. She’s been in the house of prayer for years. I’m not gonna say her name in this broadcast because I believe that she’s a representation of many that are out there who are called in this hour to be strong and courageous. And so the beginning of their dream.

It’s almost like Elijah and Elisha I am going and I’m going in pain. I’m going into a place where I’m not really sure where I’m going, but I know that the way that I walk and the anointing that’s on my life has come from a place of crushing. And Elijah, if you know his story, he calls down fire on the prophets of Baal. He’s bold and he’s courageous, and then he receives a letter from Jezebel threatening his life. He gets into fear and he goes and hides. I’ve talked about this, you know, taught on this reality of how to not bow to the spirit of fear and Jezebel in the hour of crisis.

Now we’re in it, right, but in the dream there’s almost this Elijah, elisha reality, and so this young lady wants to be near me, she wants to put her head on my chest and in the dream I’m like you really don’t know what I’ve been through in order to walk where I walk, and so, in a sense, I’m almost pushing her away. The way that Elijah, that Elisha, at the different places where he would go, and Elisha is asking for a double portion anointing and Elijah, I believe, has a groan within him and Elijah is saying dude, you do not understand the crushing, the experiences that I have been through to walk in what I walk in, and now you won’t double. And so in the dream it has this type of feel An older lady I guess I’m older now. I’m not right, I’m a middle-aged, new, you know, 40s to new, 30, whatever, but I’m older in the spirit, with a younger girl coming with me and we begin to. There’s thousands and thousands and thousands of people. We’re pressing through the crowd and I began to realize that I am supposed to be next up to speak and within the crowd there is no platform, there is no elevation of me over everyone else. As a matter of fact, it’s pressing and it’s crushing. It feels like I cannot breathe and I wanna get everybody off of me. And suddenly I have a microphone in my hand.

In the dream, all I can do as soon as the microphone hits my hand is groan and weep and travail, as if there are no words coming out. This young lady’s, still with her head on my shoulder, her head on my chest, and I’m almost like you, don’t understand the pain and the tears and the travail. I have no words for what I wanna say. And in the moment of the groan and travail. Out of my mouth comes this language of Esther. God, you must raise up a generation of Esther’s who will say if I perish, I perish. And I continue to say it over and over three times. Lord, raise up a generation of Esther’s. Awaken the Esther’s who, out of their mouth, would proclaim if I perish, I perish. And my eyes glance over to look at the young lady near my heart and I shake my head and I begin to weep even more. And in the dream, as soon as I look at her, I realize it’s not just about the esters, it’s about the mordecais. God, would you raise up a generation of mordecais? Call mordecais, call the men to the forefront. That would hold us to the charge of being a voice that would say if I die, I die. Because here’s the thing about mordecais.

Mordecai in Esther chapter. Well, mordecai in the book of Esther represents a man who has fathered this young lady, who was actually orphaned, positioned her to go into a place where she can walk out her destiny. And in the beginning it’s painful, in the beginning it’s not what she wanted, she has to disguise herself. But mordecai is positioning her, probably not even understanding fully, for the destiny of a nation. And he begins to realize, when this edict goes out by Haman, that there’s going to be destruction of the Jews, that there’s one sitting inside of the palace that has a voice, and so he begins to call her up and say listen, you’ve got to understand that you’re a Jew. You may be in disguise right now, esther, because her name was actually Hadassah. He had to help her to understand that. Either way, you are going to die. So are you going to die fighting or are you going to die hiding?

And so we need a generation of mordecais that see the anointing on the lives of the women of this hour, that the women would begin to roar the truth of the message of the not just the gospel, but the truth of the message in fullness. If we perish, we perish. Don’t mess with our kids. It’s the hashtag that we’ve been using as we begin to talk about gathering together. I’ll talk about that later in October of next year but the clarion call is that you’ve got to understand that your mouth needs to be opened, but at the same time, we need the men of God to rise up that see the anointing on the lives of women in this hour, those that have been shrinking back and watering down or editing the burning message of their hearts to say no, open your mouth, because they’re going to mess with you, they’re going to mess with your kids.

Listen, we’re seeing, even right now, this, the wildness of war in the Middle East. We’re beginning to see what could possibly be the fulfillment of prophecy within Scripture, and we’re in an hour. We’ve got to understand that there’s chance, such as death to America, taking place in this, in this Hamas thing, and we’ve got to know that. Listen, we’re on the target, we’re on the radar, and so no longer do we get to edit the truth, no longer do we get to edit the message. It’s not pretty, it’s not nice, it’s not. It can’t be boxed up in something flowery. The message of the Lord that’s coming forth right now needs to roar through the mouth of the mama bears.

And, at the same time, we’re looking at those that are with us, these young ladies, these young ones who have had to try to fight all of the oppression of their voice by an agenda that has called them to water down the truth or even brainwash them to an effect to believe that they need to form it and fashion it to fit in a pretty little package, that it’s tolerant. And here’s the thing the pressing and the crushing of the generation that has gone before you, gen Z and Gen Alpha, is looking at you and saying you got to get boldness in your bones, because we don’t even know if you’re going to be able to run with the horsemen. Listen, it says in Jeremiah if you can’t run with the footmen, how will you run with the horsemen? And the horsemen have come that you can’t run with horses if you can’t run with those who are on foot. And we’re looking at you as Elijah’s, as those who’ve gone before you, and it felt the pain and the crushing as women to be silent, to have to edit the message and saying you understand that the spirit of Jezebel that has encroached upon us.

We spent times in our younger years being violent in the spirit and declaring the truth, like Elijah did when the fire fell from heaven on the prophets of Baal, and then we got threatened by an agenda and we shrunk back. But we’re coming back with vengeance. But, young ladies, do you understand that you’ve got a break free of the spirit of the age? Do you understand that you’ve got a break free of the spirit of Jezebel of all the forms and the fashions of the desires for platform. Do you understand that what you’ve been called to and what you’re asking for, the double portion, the voice that shifts a nation, is first in intercession, but then it’s boldness as a watchman on the wall? It says in Ezekiel that you actually have to prophesy in order for the blood to not be on your hands. Do you understand what that will cost you?

But listen, what we need on top of that is not just Gen Z and Gen Alpha to understand. But we need you, men, we need you morticons, we need you with a backbone to get behind us and say this is what you’ve been called to. Who knows if you were born for such a time as this. There’s a groaning in your heart. Listen, women are groaning and travailing, like Hannah. We’re saying God, you’ve got to rescue our generation. Lord, if you would give us a priesthood, that you would give us Gen Z, gen Alpha, if you would give us children that would burn with purity, god, we’ll give them back to you.

But we’re burning and we’re groaning and we’re longing and we need the men of God, like morticons, to come up and say listen, you’ve got to get out of fear. You’ve got to get out of trauma. You’ve got to get out of concern for what the liberal agenda would say to you and step up and be a voice. You’ve got to burn the tide, first in heaven and then on earth. Listen, ladies. We’ve got to be willing to release our children. God’s calling us in this hour. Listen, if you will look at Israel right now, all eyes are on Israel right now and these women are having to release their children to frontline warfare. They are having to release their children to trust in Yahweh, the name of the Lord. Many Christians yes, as well that are citizens of Israel are releasing their children and understanding the cost of war is great, but if we perish, we perish. We’ve got to send our kids into the place that they’ve been called to and this is not easy. This is not easy, dude. I just really took off on that.

So let’s look at Esther 4.16. It says this is what Mordecai says Go and gather Sorry, this is what Esther says in response to Mordecai Go and gather all the Jews to be found in Sousa and hold a fast on my behalf and do not eat or drink for three days, day nor night. I am a young woman and also fast, as you do, and then I will go to the king, and it is if it is against the law. If I perish, I perish. And this was Mordecai’s response. If you keep silent, mordecai says in Esther 4.14, if you keep silent, relief and deliverance will rise from the Jews from another place, and you, esther, and your father’s house will perish. And who knows whether or not you have come to the kingdom for such a time as this. So I actually just flipped the scriptures. I read them backwards in my notes, but before Esther’s response with a fast, is Mordecai’s call to lay down her life.

You’ve got to understand. We cannot let the false feminist movement take over and silence the voice of the true warrior women of the earth. In this hour, we’re going to stand for holiness, we’re going to stand for purity, we’re going to stand for protection of our kids. We’re going to stand and we’re going to say if I perish, I perish. We’ve got to begin to understand that God has given us children for war. He’s given us children first of all for spiritual warfare and second of all, to be voices.

In this hour, stop holding back. Begin to teach your kids the truth. Do you know why Israel’s able to send their kids to the front lines of war. They’ve taught their kids the truth. They’ve taught their kids the identity of who they are. It’s not about destroying another nation. It’s about pushing back the Haman. It’s about pushing back the enemy and standing in the power and the intelligence of the divine and knowing that it’s written what is written in the scriptures. These kids know what is written in the scriptures that Abraham and Isaac and Jacob were given a land that they would inherit. That would be a promise that would be fulfilled, that all of the earth would be blessed. They have to believe the truth of the word of God over everything else.

Mama Bears, I’m telling you right now. This is a call to you. You’re looking at your children, that’s laying their head on your shoulder, your spiritual children, your children. They are those that are going to birth for something in this hour that is both for war and also to bring forth glory. It’s for the fire and it’s for the glory.

Stop separating the message. Stop just focusing on the positive scriptures whenever you’re teaching your kids just the scriptures that are tolerant and what you think is love it Lovely. I want you to think on lovely things. I want you to get above the warfare. But I need for you to understand. God needs for you to understand. You must teach your kids the truth.

Listen, I want to tell you this. I was so blown away my baby girls, two nights ago, if you know what just happened? There was a slaughter of children in Israel in two nights ago. My girls were up in the middle of the night, travelling. They did not know why, but they had a spirit of mourning and groaning on them, ages 12, 15 and 18, up in this room that I’m in right now, this upper room of our house, travelling and groaning and weeping, led by the spirit. And I got the opportunity to share with them the next day that their travails and their groans were over what is taking place in Israel.

I am telling my kids the truth. This is what is happening to your kids, to your generation. This is what the scriptures prophesy will happen at the end of the age. We’re walking through the scriptures and then they’re beginning to get a prayer burden. They can listen. The enemy has inundated them with all kinds of filth. We need to begin to release to them all kinds of truth, all kinds of ability to grow in the spirit and intercession. It also recognized that in the hour in which they’ve been born, the time in which they live, that they very likely could have to lay down their life for the cause of Christ.

And if you’re not preparing your kids, then you’re standing in fear Either way. Either way, you’ve got to understand they’re coming after our kids, they’re coming after our families. They came at listen. I don’t even know if I should go there on this live, but you cannot trust the government system, because you’ve got to understand that the governance of the Lord takes place from the heavenly realm. There’s a time that is coming when a war and rumors of war, but also these things, are allowed to take place in order to be able to feel agendas. And so you’ve got to teach your kids the word and the truth and what takes place and how to hear the difference between what God is saying and what the internet and the news is communicating to them. If you’re not equipping your kids, moms and dads, then you’re not really positioning them for what they’ve been born for.

0:19:42 – AD
Hey Burning Messenger, we want to interrupt today’s episode to remind you of Tammy’s book Permission to Burn. The book is her testimony on paper. She was on fire and never expected her life to demonstrate anything other than the zeal of God’s heart for his people. Tammy was going to change the world and see millions come to know her Jesus with the same passion and desire. Until the lies and obstacles begin.

Permission to Burn will take you on a journey of truth and release the weight of God’s glory and recommission the believer in Christ to live out his or her identity as a holy messenger. Awaken the courage to reclaim the undeniable truth amid a dangerously confused generation In part, keys to living the holy, consecrated yet exhilarating, spirit-filled life. Fall forth a scriptural plumb line of reformation to the modern church and leadership structure and bind together hearts of seasoned leaders and young believers for a sustainable last day’s Holy Spirit outpouring. Read Permission to Burn. Get back on the mountain God gave you and take your place in setting this world on fire for the love of Jesus. In your generation. You can find Permission to Burn, breaking the chains of compromise from a holy generation, on Amazon.

0:21:02 – Tammie Southerland
Come on Jesus.

Come on Jesus. Esther had to choose to act. She had to know that her silence would lead to her demise and her generations. So what is our take away from this? We’re calling fast. We’re calling a nation to fast.

I want to tell you what my husband brought up last night Blew me away. Okay, we’re laying in the bed, we’re praying, we’re praying, we’ve been discussing and we’ve been praying. And this is what he said At least in Esther’s hour they, israel, allowed their people to be armed. When Hamans Edic took place, he said at least they were armed. And this just came in and nobody was armed. And this is the thing it hit me so strongly in my heart when he said it. I said but there was an Esther. But there was an Esther in the palace. And if there wasn’t an Esther in the palace, if there wouldn’t have been a mordecai at the gate, it would have looked very similar. You see, I want to know where the Esther is in the palace right now. I want to know where the mordecai is at the gate.

Where are the men that are calling, the women that have the access to be a voice that could turn the heart of the king? I can take you there in an intercession. There’s a voice in the earth that you’ve been called to, to call to be, but many of you are in sectors of society, maybe even governments, that you’re keeping your mouth closed. Some of you need to intercede specifically for those in office. Some of you know women in particular. God’s calling women right now. There’s an anointing on women to rise up, women in particular that have influence, and that you need to call them to the carpet and you need to say listen, you have a voice. What if this whole thing could have been turned if there was an Esther in the kings palace? Or was there an Esther who kept quiet? These are the questions we have to ask, not condemning anyone.

I see all this biblical prophecy proportion of improvising and shaking. For years I’ve been prophesying and shaking. For years I’ve been saying you can’t believe what you read and see on the media. For years you got to come up and get above it. You got to get divine intelligence. I’m just saying right now that this is what is happening and you can’t trust what you see and hear on the internet.

Where are the esters? Where are those that raise their voice Not just on platforms and intercession and groaning, and raising up a generation and raising up the next generation, not willing, like Hannah, to hold tight what God would give you but to release them back to him. Where are the men that will say God has called women to the forefront. Get rid of the spirit of religion that is silencing women, break. Listen. Some of you men know it. Some of you men know your wife’s got a voice and you see, in your, in religious atmospheres that are holding her back, and you need to step up, like Mordecai, and you need to tell her that she’s going to die either way, that she’s going to die with the word in her bones and her kids are going to go with her, or she’s going to have to use her voice.

I want to encourage you. I’m thankful for those of you that are Mordecais. Never has there been a time where you’re more important, and so this can be so many layers and so many levels. The Father, we just thank you so much for giving us the opportunity to rise up, to rise up in this moment. God, let us be willing to give up our platforms, I should say our reputations, for the greater good.

Some of you, I feel it right now, somebody that’s watching me. You have influence. You have influence in a sector that does not believe like you believe, and you’ve been silent. Some of you have been standing for things that you don’t believe in because you’re afraid. You’ve put it on your t-shirt, you’ve put it on your Facebook, but you don’t believe in it, and you’re posting things that you do not believe in because you’re afraid to declare what you do. I want you to know they’re coming for your kids too. If you perish, you perish. Get a voice and get a backbone. Some of you have just been afraid because you’ve been wounded and you’re not in a situation.

I recently had somebody text me and say listen, your husband’s recovering. You’re not in a situation where you can be a voice, or you think you’re not. I want you to begin to intercede for your husband, begin to intercede for your leaders. The power you have, the influence you have in the heavenly realm is unbelievable. I have no idea how the power, intercession can literally turn the heart of a king, and all of us are called to a fast Right now. I want to invite you into a fast, whatever that looks like for you. Fasting moves the heart of the king, but it also kills our flesh. It puts things into right perspective and it causes the heart of heaven to respond.

I know this has been somewhat of a heavy message, but God is raising up fearless voices. In this time, there’s no more time to fear, there’s no more time to be silent or be quiet. It’s time for us to raise up sons and daughters who will be bold and courageous. And you, jen’s ears, you, jen Alpha’s, shake off the fear of man. Get in the word. Prepare your heart, pray in tongues, pray more than you say, so that when it comes out of your mouth it cuts like a double-edged sword.

Mothers and fathers, I’m calling you now to teach them to pray. And if you don’t know how to pray, begin to say God, teach me to pray. True disciples say teach us to pray. That’s where the word of the Lord comes from, the throne ring, not from chat, gtp or Google. You can learn the word, you can use tools, but if you don’t have the word in you, you’re not going to prophesy truth and it’s not going to cut. Get in the heavenly realms and get the word of the Lord and you will be victorious. We’re in the best of the times and the worst of times.

Haggaios says that the earth would shake and the stars would fall, and the stars represent leaders and kings. As the shaking happens, the only thing that’s going to remain is the unshakable kingdom. So go. If you perish, you perish. So, father, I thank you in the name of Jesus.

For those that are watching God, I pray that you would bring forth truth and justice in their hearts, or that you would help use your word in the burning of the spirit of God, to separate from their heart what is emotion and what is the spirit. God, as I pray so often for myself that the word of God is in them, those that know you, jesus, that the word of God is in them, so they would begin to hear your word even in their internal being, that they begin to know the word and let the word know them, they begin to pray like they’ve never prayed before, that they would be built up in the most holy faith. God released the baptismism of the Holy Spirit in fire, even right now. Release the fire, release the tongues, release the action, release the power of the gospel right now. Lord, you said if Jesus, if you be lifted up, you will draw all man to yourself. So, jesus, we lift you up. You were lifted up on the cross in your crucifixion. You bled and you died and you were raised and you poured out your spirit that we could be transformed and walk in the fullness of our sonship.

God, that we would use this declaration, this proclamation that Esther said, not as some kind of fun language, but truly get it in our hearts that we’re going to die either way, let’s die. If we die, let us die proclaiming the truth. Let us not go down without a fight. But, lord, let us also know that the battle is not ours, but the battle is yours. So you give the strategy, you give the battle plan, and when we pray according to your will, it will be done for us by you, father, who was in heaven, that your word run swiftly and it always accomplishes what it was sent forth to accomplish. So release your word even right now to those that are watching me. Strike their hearts right now in the name of Jesus. Open the eyes of the blind. Open the ears of the deaf. Ignite the heart and the soul of that one that has been asleep. Cause the spirit of burning to be released. Speak, lord. Even right now, somebody needs to say speak, lord, for your servant is listening Some of you, mom, is God is stirring your heart.

You’re going to literally going to be flipping the table of your home and you’re going to be resetting it as a house of prayer. Fathers, same thing, you’re going to be setting up the altar of prayer and intercession and teach your children and teach your wives. Teach the word. Let it be washing them with the water of the word. Love your wife, as Christ gave himself up for the church for her. Raise her up as an Esther, raise her up as a bride. Trust the voice of the Lord and the groaning of her heart. I love you guys. Thank you so much again for joining me for this week’s podcast. Go ahead and share it. Listen, share the podcast, but share the message. Let this message get in your bones. I love you again. We’ll see you soon and always remember this is the heart of this podcast Burning messengers you don’t have to burn alone. You’re not alone. In Jesus’ name, I’ll see you soon.

Ready to ignite your spiritual journey? This episode is a deep exploration of ‘The Spirit of Burning’, a profound baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire introduced by Jesus. We shed light on the transformative power of this spirit and its impact on our lives. We navigate through Isaiah 4:4, reflect on the lack of this burning spirit in our places of worship, and explore how we can become burning messengers on earth, deeply in love with God. Our hearts cry out in prayer as we seek divine ignition to serve our Lord passionately.

Our spiritual journey doesn’t stop there. As we delve deeper, we see how this baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire becomes a great divider, separating us from our old, worldly ways and igniting an internal battle. We delve into the teachings of Jesus, our model in this journey. We discuss the power of the Holy Spirit and how it enables us to witness Jesus across the globe, guiding us into the harvest and inspiring us to pray for more laborers.

In the final part of our conversation, we discuss ‘The Igniting Fire’ – the potent spirit of burning. We uncover how it transforms us to mirror Jesus in action, word, and spirit. United by this shared experience, the fire of God propels us to share the gospel, reach the lost, and fulfill Jesus’s great commission. Ending with a potent prayer, we seek the ignition of God’s fire to deliver us, to teach us holiness and purity, and to be sent into the earth to make disciples and serve the vision of the Lord.

Where to dive in:

(0:00:00) – The Spirit of Burning (12 Minutes)

The spirit of burning is a baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire that Jesus baptizes us in. Isaiah 4:4 mentions the Lord washing away the filth of the women of Zion and cleansing the blood stains of Jerusalem by the spirit of judgment and the spirit of fire and the spirit of burning. This fire has been lacking in the church house and how to live as a burning one in the earth requires a transformation of the heart and stripping away all the idols and false worship practices to be consecrated to the Lord. We end the chapter with a prayer for the participants to be ignited to fall more deeply in love with God and to become burning messengers in the earth.

(0:12:18) – Holy Spirit (9 Minutes)

Jesus brings fire on earth through His baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire. This baptism will divide families and cause us to war within ourselves until we give up and die to our old ways in order to live in the Spirit. Jesus is our model in this journey and the power of the Holy Spirit enables us to be witnesses of Jesus to the ends of the earth. We can be empowered to go into the harvest and pray for laborers to be sent forth.

(0:21:01) – The Igniting Fire (6 Minutes)

We explore the power of the spirit of burning, a baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire that ignites us to serve. We discuss how it transforms us to look, talk, and function like Jesus. We become witnesses, with a testimony in our bones of who Jesus is and what he’s done in our lives that we will not recant, even if it costs us our life. We also discuss how Jesus connects our hearts with one another, and how the fire of God propels us to share the gospel, reach the lost, and obey Jesus’s great commission. Finally, we pray for the igniting of God’s fire to bring deliverance, to teach us to be holy and pure, and to be sent into the earth to make disciples and serve the vision of the Lord.

(0:26:48) – Broadcast Hiccups and Call for Support (1 Minutes)

The baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire can bring war and division, but also bring us closer to God and ignite us to serve. We explore how the spirit of burning can transform us to look more like Jesus and bring fire on earth. We also talk about how the spirit of burning can cause us to be tested, but ultimately lead to a greater level of intimacy with God.


About the host:

Tammie Southerland is the host of Burning Messengers and the author of Permission To Bur: Breaking the Chains of Compromise from a Holy Generation. She is also a speaker and prophetic minister. She releases the sound authentic of revival and messages from heaven as she travels. Her lifestyle is one of prayer and digging deep into the Word of God, her desire is to releasing the Heart of The Father in these last days. She moves in power ministry and is known for releasing the Matthew 3:11 “baptism of Holy Fire” as she goes. ⁠


Buy Tammie’s Book “Permission to Burn: Breaking the Chains of Compromise from a Holy Generation” here⁠:⁠



0:00:00 – Tammie Southerland
and consecrated unto him. The consecrated ones are the ones that are humble, the ones that are set apart. Those are the ones that hear his voice. You function in the power of his spirit, but you can’t do that. You’ve got to ascend the hill of the Lord with clean hands and a pure heart. Hello and welcome to the Burning Messengers Live. Haven’t done a live in quite a while, but I just want to thank you all for joining me.

My name is Tammy Sutherland and I am the host of the Burning Messengers, and our podcast is really to let you know that you don’t have to burn alone. And today in this podcast, we’re going to let you in on a little secret. There is a spirit of burning, but there’s also a way to live as a burning one in the earth. We just came out of an amazing gathering that we had in a little place called 96, south Carolina. We had what we called the Tabernacle and the table. We did 24 hours worship. We sat in the presence of Lord. He absolutely encountered us. It was prophetic worship and a table that we sat out and everyone was able to encounter the Lord in the revelation of not just a table of communion but a table of transfiguration, a table of transformation where we were able to partake of what the Lord was doing in and through us and be transformed in his image. And so, in this kind of thing, you come into these gatherings and you have an encounter with God, your heart is set on fire. So many people come and they go back to their regions, to their cities, and they’re like well, what do I do with the fire now? Well, this podcast is for you because, first of all, you need to know that you aren’t alone and you’re burning. You don’t have to burn alone. And guess what? It’s not about you. It’s about what you’re able to allow the Lord to accomplish in your heart as he ignites you to fall more deeply in love with him. And so let’s start in. Let’s pray. Father, I thank you for the opportunity to come. I ask you that you would speak your word, which you would unveil your message, god, that you would cause us to burn with the fire that you have for us to burn with in your spirit. Lord, let us be messengers in the earth. God, open the hearts to receive and to know really what it is to to walk in you and to walk in this fire. God, we just call people in from the north, south, east and the west. They would become burning messengers in the earth. But God, that they would also walk in consecration and purity and let your fire have its work in them. So now we’re going to dive deep into this.

The spirit of burning, it’s two things. So it’s seen in Ivea four, verse four. And the spirit of burning is also a baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire that Jesus Baptizes us in. And we see it first in Matthew 3, 11 and in Luke, where John the Baptist is Baptizing in the waters of repentance. Jesus shows up and he gets baptized in the water, but John points to him and says that he has a greater baptism, a better Baptism, and he would come and he would baptize in the Holy Spirit and fire for many years.

I think what is this fire? I want to understand this fire. Used to ask the Lord all the time I grew up Methodist. I would look and I would see this flame on the flag in the corner of the, the church house and the church house seemed to be lacking fire and I’m like what is the fire? Became absolutely interested in that have. A book called permission to burn talks a little bit more about my testimony. I’m not just my testimony, but the teaching of the spirit of burning and permission to burn with the fire of the Lord. So let’s dive into this real quick. So to be love sick for God with the spirit of burning means that you’re being Transformed by this fire.

Let’s look at Isaiah 4, verse 4. This is gonna throw you just a little bit, if you understand. The prophet Isaiah is coming to Israels, coming to what we would call the church, the religious people of the day, and saying look, guys, you have to repent. You have been taking on other idols, you’ve forsaken the Lord. And then it’s even says, leading up to chapter 4, that the women of Zion, the daughters of Zion, will be stripped of their, basically their beauty and they would be found Broken in wanting. I’m gonna talk about a little bit more what that means in scripture when you see daughters, women, when it talks about cities, it’s. We’ll talk about that in just a second.

So the spirit of burning, isaiah 4 4. The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion and he will cleanse the blood stains of Jerusalem by the spirit of judgment and the spirit of fire, subversion, say in the spirit of burning. And so here we see, the women are, the daughters of Zion, are being cleansed by this judgment, by the spirit of burning. So if you look at scripture anytime, you see daughters of a city is actually talking about the reproduction of the city of Zion, or of Israel, into other cities. And so there’s got to be this cleansing, because Israel, or Zion, is supposed to be a leader of the people, supposed to reproduce consecrated ones that are set apart for Yahweh, but what there’s been is a multiplication of idolatry. These daughters of Zion, these cities that have come out of influence by Zion, have actually influenced the people of Israel into the worship of other gods. And so he’s stripping away it says there their bangles, their bracelets, their gold, their silver, their beauty. He’s stripping all that away. Now, in the physical, this did happen. They went into exile, they went from glorious and beautiful to being servants and slaves. And so the spirit of burning, or the spirit of judgment, is there to cleanse, to purify and then to set back right. And so the first action, when we begin to burn for the Lord and sit with him, baptizing the spirit, should be an exposure of our idols, exposure of all the ways that we’ve taken on idolatry of the world.

The Babylonian spirit you can see in the book of Revelation that actually comes in at the end of the age and just influences the church. It’s calling what is evil good and what is good evil we see that very prevalent already in our nation. And so when the Lord comes in with his fire, he comes into first of all to judge our hearts personally, to set us apart. We’re called to be consecrated ones. The blood of the lamb, the testimony of Jesus, calls us into being set apart so that we can yet again be holy and consecrated unto him. The consecrated ones, the ones that are humble, the ones that are set apart, those are the ones that hear his voice. You function in the power of his spirit.

But you can’t do that. You’ve got to ascend the hill of the Lord with clean hands and a pure heart. So the spirit of burning can also be a judgment that brings us back into clear understanding of righteousness and holiness and a walking with him. And so it cleanses the bloodstains right. It cleanses us from unrighteousness. And if you’re encountering the Lord, if you’re burning for the Lord, you should be falling deeply in love with him. But you should also be being transformed. You should be being transfigured into his image, looking more like him, radiating his beauty inwardly and outwardly. And so you’re encountering the Lord for cleansing, you become lovesick for God, you passionately desire his presence and you’re letting his refining remove the impurities from your life.

So also in this fire, in the baptism of the spirit, we begin to long to become like Christ. So, burning ones, burning messengers, we love to sit at the feet of Jesus. Listen, day and night, night and day. That’s what we were created for. We’re created to worship. We’re created for intercession. We’re created to do our work from the heavenly realms. We’re created to see what he sees and know what he knows. But we weren’t created just to sit there and bask and soak in all of this. We were actually created to be transformed into his likeness, and that we’ve got to think about.

How did Jesus walk in the earth? How did he function in the spirit of burning? Let’s look at this. So I referenced a little bit earlier John the Baptist and his baptism, and then the baptism of fire by Jesus, luke 3, verse 16,. John answered them all. I baptize you with water, but one who is more powerful than I will come the straps of whose sandals I’m not worthy to untie he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

So, just as Jesus was baptized in the water and the Holy Spirit and fire came upon him to solidify to those who were in the crowd that he’s the Son of God. His identity is the Son, the unveiling of who he is Christ, the Messiah, the annoyed one. In the same way, when we come into that baptism of Christ, when we come into the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire, it seals within us an identity. Romans 8 says all of creation is groaning for the unveiling, for the revealing of the sons of God. So the spirit of burning, the Holy Spirit and fire, will actually confirm to you and seal in you your sonship, your identity. This is for a reason.

All of this is unto something. I love to sit in the presence of God and burn. Stand firm, minister, and burn. But it’s unto something. It’s creating within you a clean heart. It’s renewing within you righteousness and a right spirit. It’s causing you to know that you need to come out of the world and be set firm in Christ. And that firm in your identity is one that all of creation is groaning would come to know who they are.

And so, just as Christ was baptized in water and the Holy Spirit came upon him, in the same way when you’re baptized in the Holy Spirit because this is the baptism, jesus baptizes us in the water. Baptism is good and we need it and God is moving in it, but the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire is actually done by Jesus. Many oftentimes when you go into the water, if you ask Him for it and the baptism of the water, you will receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire. That work within you is sealing and confirming who you are. But that’s just the beginning. That’s not where it ends.

That’s the beginning, and the more you run towards the fire, the more your heart is going to be cleansed, the more you’re going to begin to understand that the Spirit of God Himself divides the soul, the mind, will and the emotions from the Holy, the Spirit of God, and so it brings division Even within yourself. You have to begin to say this is not like Christ. This behavior, this thought, this action, it’s not like Jesus. This is not what I was made for. I wasn’t made to think, feel and act in this way. And so the conviction of the Lord is like a sword. The Spirit of the Lord cleanses and judges the intentions and thoughts of the heart. And so, again, this is the fire of God, what it does to come in and cleanse.

I want to read this to you. It says that in Luke 12.49, he says I’ve come to bring fire on the earth and how I wish it was already kindled. On the conversation of burning and division, let’s look at this real quick. The Spirit of burning is not to serve our own passion, although it makes us passionate. It’s also to bring us into the earth who is caught up in a way of doing things that is not like the Lord, not like Christ, and restore the earth, restore the people of the earth, reconcile them to God. But this is what it does. Look at Luke, chapter 12, verse 49 to 56. We’ll talk about this a little bit more as we go into it.

He says I’ve come to bring fire on the earth and how I wish it was already kindled, but I have a baptism to undergo. He’s talking about his death. He’s talking about crucifixion. Okay, when we’re baptized into Christ, we’re also baptized into the cross. We take up our cross daily, the baptism he’s going to go undergo, and what constraint I am under. Until it’s completed.

He’s actually constrained within the flesh. He’s constrained within the body until he’s completed the baptism of death, burial and resurrection. So this skin, this flesh, it actually constrains us from being able to fully function in the full redemption that Christ died for. Christ in us is the hope of glory. He’s our model, he’s what we look at, he’s the mirror that we look into. The original intention in the garden of Eden is what we look at to see, before the sin entered to the world, before the fall, how we’re supposed to walk, walking with him in his spirit, in the cool of the day where we know good and do not partake into evil. And so he says do you think that I came to bring peace in the earth? No, I tell you about division, for now there will be five in one family, divided against each other, three against two and two against three. There will be father against son and son against father and mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother in law against daughter in law and daughter in law against mother in law. Paul’s right there. So the spirit of the Lord comes in in this moment.

You’ve got to understand the context where Jesus is now fulfilling the Old Testament. He’s fulfilling the Old Covenant. The prophets have prophesied about him. The Feast have pointed towards him. All of the scriptures have said that the Messiah will come. Isaiah 56 said that he would be crucified. It says that by his stripes will be healed, that he would be abandoned or rejected by those he came to. All everything pointed up to this moment, but they’ve gotten caught up in the doing and not seen the one who is to come.

And so when he’s speaking of this, he’s saying as I pour out my spirit, as I die in crucifixion, as I’m raised again, my spirit upon the earth will actually divide you against one another. Some who will believe that I am not fulfilling, I am not the Messiah, yet some will, and those will be divided against each other. It’s the old wineskin versus the new wineskin. The old wineskin, brothers and sisters, is the Old Testament that’s been fulfilled. The new wineskin that Christ came to bring was where he would pour out his blood into this lamb skin. That would be a womb to birth sons and daughters out of the spirit coming out of the flesh and into the spirit. The new wineskin is made of lamb skin and it’s actually a womb that births, new life, sons and daughters, by the blood of the lamb and the word of his testimony. And so the blood of bull and goats would no longer satisfy. It would only be the blood of the lamb and the spirit of the Lord.

The kindling fire of God actually would divide, because the people who would be baptized in his fire would burn with such holiness and conviction that they couldn’t help but portray or release the beauty of who Jesus the Messiah is to all of those around him. He’s saying that my spirit will actually divide you one from another, but yet, at the same time, do not become haughty and arrogant in it. You have to go low, because you’ll also have to take up your cross. You’ll also be sent into regions and nations and places where they will reject you because of the burning on your life. And so you look at Jesus, you allow the formation of who he is to take place in you as you come closer to him, you run to the fire and not away from it. You cause your eyes to be set on him and you serve, and you do not desire to be served. Even in his burning he lays down his life. No one can take it from him.

Listen, guys, the spirit of burning will wreck you. It will mess you up because you’ll no longer look like, talk like or act like the world. You’ve got to come out from among them and be separate. But at the same time you’ll be in the world, but not of it, because you hear what I just said you can’t take on the ways of the world anymore. This divides, it makes it clear. It’s going to divide you against you. It’s going to divide your old ways and against your new ways. It’s going to cause you to know what is flesh and what is spirit. It’s going to cause you to war within yourself until you give up and you die. Well, you die to the old man and you live to the spirit, that which you’ve been born again to live in. So you’re going to serve with passion ignited by the fire and the Holy Spirit of God.

It says in Acts, chapter one, verse eight. This is what he told them. Whenever he’s telling them I’m going to die, I’m going to be buried, I’m going to be resurrected. Actually, in Acts one eight, he’s already resurrected and this is what he says. But you will receive the power of the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit comes to you Power. What is the power unto? All of this is unto something. This is why you’ve got to understand the functionality of the spirit of burning. It’s unto you being witnesses, it says, in Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria and to the ends of the earth. So the Holy Spirit’s burning within you should actually cause a drivenness in you to be egg-ballowed. It says pray, therefore, that the, the harvesters, the laborers, would be sent forth into the harvest. Pray for the laborers to be sent forth in the harvest wine, because the harvest is plentiful and the laborers are few.

So the more time you spend with the Lord in intimacy I’m talking about personal intimacy with him, I’m talking about sacrifice, daily devotion, I’m talking about being set apart and sitting with him in this presence the more you stand firm, minister, and burn in him. And this is personal. This isn’t always corporate. As a matter of fact, it’s not going to be corporate unless it’s personal. You are going to begin to experience an egg-ballow in your spirit.

First of all, a drive being driven out by the finger of God to hunger and thirst for righteousness and to remove yourself from everything that’s not of God. And, second of all, you’re going to be driven to release what you have received, to those who have not seen and not heard, he says he’s going to send them into Jerusalem. They’re going to be rejected there, to Judea Samaria, those who have been seen as the ones that don’t deserve to know him and don’t deserve to receive his spirit, and then to the ends of the earth. So the Holy Spirit’s fire empowers you to serve others with passion. The early disciples were filled with the spirit and they became witnesses. The word witness means martyr.

0:19:42 – Speaker 2
Hey Burning Messenger, we wanna interrupt today’s episode to remind you of Tammy’s book Permission to Burn. The book is her testimony on paper. She was on fire and never expected her life to demonstrate anything other than the zeal of God’s heart for his people. Tammy was going to change the world and see millions come to know her Jesus with the same passion and desire. Until the lies and obstacles begin.

Permission to Burn will take you on a journey of truth and release the weight of God’s glory and recommission the believer in Christ to live out his or her identity as a holy messenger. Awaken the courage to reclaim the undeniable truth amid a dangerously confused generation. Impart keys to living the holy, consecrated yet exhilarating, spirit-filled life. Call forth a scriptural plumb line of reformation to the modern church and leadership structure and bind together hearts of seasoned leaders and young believers for a sustainable last days, holy spirit outpouring. Read Permission to Burn. Get back on the mountain God gave you and take your place in setting this world on fire for the love of Jesus. In your generation you can find Permission to Burn, breaking the chains of compromise from a holy generation, on Amazon.

0:21:01 – Speaker 1
The word witness means martyr. They didn’t just see with their eyes and hear with their ears. They had a testimony that they were willing to die for. We’re gonna keep going. So the holy spirit fire in you creates with the in you, a faithful witness. You will be ignited to serve. I’m not talking about just preach how will they know if they don’t have a preacher? But you’re gonna begin to preach with your life when you enter into the spirit of burning.

You preach with your life because you’re transformed by him. The more you sit with him, the more you should look like him, talk like him, function like him. When you sit with him, you’re praying things like I wanna know you and I wanna be known by you. Search me and know me. You become an eyewitness to him, you develop history with him and then you get a testimony in your bones of who he is and what he’s done in your life that you will not recant, even if it costs you your life. And it’s the blood of the martyrs that’s filled out, that testifies to those who take their life that Jesus is Lord, because they lay down their lives in the same way that he laid his down out of the place of love out of the place of service, because eternity never ends but this earth, those who do not know Christ. In this earth, they will have an ending, and it will be an ending of torment. And so if you get within your bones the fire of God, the revelation of heaven, you will not recant your testimony because it’s made a change in you and you will lay down your life to serve those who do not know him as well as those who are. They’re functioning as other burning messengers. We come alongside each other in the vision of the Lord as he begins to connect our hearts with one another. And so all this saying the final, not the final, the powerful, one of the powerful things that burning and being ignited with the spirit of burning does is causes us to be servants of his and of voice trumpets, ones that have his word in our mouth and his actions in our being.

Matthew 28, 19 to 20,. Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey all that. I command you so we let the fire of God propel us to share the gospel, to reach the lost, jesus’s great commission, co-mission between you and me and him Causes us to be able to be the representation of him in the earth that we could not be without the power of his spirit. I said this in a prayer meeting recently. The same spirit that rose Christ from the dead lives in you. Don’t water that down. You’ve got a dead razor living in you. You got the healer living in you. You got the burning man himself asking can I take over your life? Resilience prayed. Possess me, god, and that’s our prayer. That’s what we’re asking him for.

When we are ignited with the spirit of burning, we’re asking God to possess us, to use us for his glory, to purify us, to cleanse us, to cause us to come out of Babylonian spirit, the spirit of this age, to be walking holy, pure fireballs for him, submitting ourselves to his spirit and being sent into the earth to make disciples and to serve the vision of the Lord. And so, father, I pray for those right now that are watching me that you would release the igniting of your fire, that you would bring deliverance. That you would teach us how to come out from among them and be separate, that you would teach us how to be bearers of your presence, ones who walk in your voice that proclaim your name and proclaim your word, because you’re the only one worthy that you would cause us to be pure. It calls us to be holy, calls our hearts to align with your heart. And God, I’m asking you to use those that are watching to be sent into regions, into churches, into houses, into hubs, into the hardest, darkest places of the earth, to go low and serve, to go low and be your hands and feet, god. That they would develop intimacy with you that’s their intimacy with you, not depending on any man or any woman to lead them into your presence. That they would be formed, they would be fashioned, they would hunger and thirst for you. That they’d get up early in the morning to pray. They’d find themselves praying in the morning, praying in the evening, praying in the noon time, devouring your word. And being fashioned and formed into burning messengers that rightly proclaim and rightly walk out you, jesus, in the earth. That they would be witnesses, even witnesses that would not hold their own lives dear, more dear than the truth of who you are, more dear than the testimony of your beauty. God. That they would let me lay down lovers, but we give you the glory. We thank you in Jesus’ name.

Hey guys, you don’t have to burn alone. I love you. We’re going to actually be starting a course on approaching the scriptures. Rightly follow me on Facebook. We’ve got a private group. Go jump into that private group. It’s called Burning Burning One’s Academy Live. Jump into that private group. We’re going to do more lives and more things in there and there’s more information for you to come. I love you. Thank you for sticking with me if you’re on live right now. Sorry for all the little hiccups. It’s been crazy trying to do this broadcast, pray, pray, because this camera keeps wanting to cut off, but I knew the Lord wanted you to have this message. I love you again. I can’t wait to see you, whatever facet it is Facebook, instagram, local meetings, all the things in Jesus’ name. Alright, see you later.

0:27:16 –
Thank you for listening to this episode of Burning Messengers. You don’t want to miss what’s coming next week, so if you haven’t subscribed, please do so wherever you listen to podcasts. And if this word touched your heart, please rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts. To connect with Tammy, follow her on social media or visit frontlinefireo.rg. You don’t have to burn alone.

Join me, on this journey into the heart of Yom Kippur and the Feast of Tabernacles, as we uncover the profound connections to the atonement of Christ. We’ll walk through the historical and prophetic significance of Yom Kippur, a time of deep introspection, repentance, and fasting, culminating in the high priest’s holy task of making atonement for the sins of the people. Listen in as we explore the symbolism of the scapegoat and the scarlet thread, powerful symbols that echo the redemptive power of Jesus, our perfect and sinless sacrificial lamb.

As we transition into the Feast of Tabernacles, we’ll experience the beautiful presence of the Lord as he dwelled with the Israelites in the wilderness. We’ll uncover the lessons hidden in the humble tabernacle and the banquet table set by Moses, reflecting Jesus’ invitation to commune with him. In the midst of this, we’ll touch upon Peter’s reaction to Jesus’ transfiguration, reminding us of the sheer beauty and power of sharing a meal with God.

Finally, we’ll immerse ourselves in the glory of Christ as experienced in the Feast of Tabernacles. I’ll guide you through the process of intercession, inviting you to draw nearer to Him, partake in His glory, and break bread together. It’s a profound invitation to set your own table of encounter with Him, fostering a transformational encounter that’s even greater than Moses’s. Prepare your hearts, dear listeners, as we embark on this journey to meet Him away from the noise, ready for the transformation and transfiguration He has in store for us.


Where to dive in:

(0:00:01) – Yom Kippur, Tabernacles, and Christ’s Atonement

Yom Kippur is a time for repentance, fasting, atonement, and prophetic intercession to accept Jesus’ redemptive power.

(0:10:12) – Revealing the Tabernacle and the Table

God’s presence in the wilderness, Jesus’ invitation to dine, Peter’s reaction to the transfiguration, and God’s appointed feasts signify His indwelling presence.

(0:23:42) – Experiencing Christ’s Glory in Tabernacles

Yom Kippur invites us to intercede, partake of God’s glory, and encounter Him in the Feast of Tabernacles.

(0:30:17) – Promotion of Burning Messengers Podcast

We approach God’s mercy, reflect on Yom Kippur, and share the message of grace.


About the host: 

Tammie Southerland is the host of Burning Messengers and the author of Permission To Bur: Breaking the Chains of Compromise from a Holy Generation. She is also a speaker and prophetic minister. She releases the sound authentic of revival and messages from heaven as she travels. Her lifestyle is one of prayer and digging deep into the Word of God, her desire is to releasing the Heart of The Father in these last days. She moves in power ministry and is known for releasing the Matthew 3:11“baptism of Holy Fire” as she goes. ⁠


Burning Gear – Shirt, Mugs, and More:


Buy Tammie’s Book “Permission to Burn: Breaking the Chains of Compromise from a Holy Generation” here⁠: ⁠

Burning Gear | Support The Pod & Wear Your Faith on Your Sleeve


And so Yom Kippur, the priest interceded, but Jesus continually intercedes, offering eternal atonement through his cross, through his blood. Do you know that it says the blood of Jesus speaks a better word than the blood of Abel? Hi guys, Fiery Revelators, so glad to see you again on this episode of Burning Messengers, the Burning Messengers podcast. I am your host, Tammy Southerland, and we are in the middle of some of the most powerful towns right now. To be honest with you on what is many call the Jewish calendar. So it’s actually what we call God’s calendar, and we live on the Gregorian calendar, which is January, February, March, April, May, June, July, August. But God’s calendar has a little bit different setup. It’s the calendar that some believe began at the beginning of time, at creation, and so, according to the Dead Sea Scrolls, even the calendar that we call the Jewish calendar could be off by about 200 years. But it’s important to know how God works on his calendar for the purpose of the eternal storyline. So we’re going to look at some of these things in the play in a way of legalism. We look at them in a way of prophetic revelation. So Yom Kippur, tabernacles and the transfiguration of Christ at a feast can be super prophetic. So follow along with me as we jump into this revelatory swirl today about Yom Kippur, which would have been September 24th, 25th, the feast of Tabernacles, and the profound symbolism of the scapegoat, all pointing to the redemption of Christ.

So let’s begin with Yom Kippur. Yom Kippur was, or is, a time on the calendar of the Lord that signifies searching our hearts, repentance and even fasting. Many that are Israelites or Jews will fast completely no food, no water during this time. They won’t even bathe, because it’s a time to completely, totally separate yourself and allow the Lord to search your heart, y’all way to search your heart and know you. But it’s also a day saturated with God’s mercy and His grace. It’s a time when the high priests entered the holy of holies to make atonement for the sins of the people.

Now I’m going to tell you, real quick, a little bit more about this priest and how he would actually use what is called a scapegoat to lay his hands on that scapegoat, send it out of the, out of the camp where they were, as a representation of laying the sins of the nation onto this goat, and sending it out in order to remove that sin from the people. And so, in true Jewish tradition, this would happen. It would go into the wilderness and they would tie a scarlet cord or thread around the horn of this goat and they would watch to see if that thread would turn white in order to recognize that God had removed the sin from the nation. It said that 40 years before Jesus is coming, that the and had his sacrifice, him being the lamb that was slain on the cross, that the scarlet thread quit turning white. So that’s pretty significant as we think about what we’re going to talk about today Yom Kippur, beast of Tabernacles and Christ’s atonement for us, the prophetic symbolism. Think about that too. Now, god was already signifying that he was no longer removing the sin of the nation through a goat, but he would bring forth a prophetic fulfillment that would cover the sins of the world all once and for all. But the blood of bulls and goats could not. So Jesus is the perfect, sinless, sacrificial lamb, right, we’ll get into that a little bit more later on.

And so the priest would bathe, he would change his clothes, he would go from his glorious garments that would identify him as the priest and he would put on white linen. And if you look at this and study it out a little bit more. That is very significant. We see this again in the book of Revelation, when the people are presented before the Lord, those that come out of the time of trial and temptation. They are clothed in white linen. You and I are going to be clothed in linen. We see the Lord glorious, white and bright and shining, and so it’s the simplicity of this clothing which is like sort of prophetically wore this for this podcast. It’s the simplicity of this clothing that points towards him being the glorious one. It’s just so powerful. And so he would make his first. He would make atonement for his own sins, the high priest, because he’s would not without sin. As a matter of fact, they operated in a serious fear of the Lord going into this one time opportunity, into the holy of holies, to make a sacrifice for the sin of the people, and he would go through his ritualistic cleansing, physically, in order to intercede on the behalf of the people.

So this intercession piece, I want you to hear me in this podcast and the podcast that come, connecting prophecy to intercession. There is no prophecy without intercession. There is not a prophet in the Bible who was able to prophesy or release what the Lord was saying with being in the place of feeling, experiencing, identifying with God himself and coming to know him and knowing his heart and knowing his ways. And so this was an act of prophetic intercession. It would point towards Jesus, who is our great high priest. Ultimately, he was seeking for reconciliation with Yahweh and the people by laying his hands on this goat and releasing that goat and the sins of the people as the scapegoat on the day of Yom Kippur.

And so let’s grasp this profound reality as revelators, right, we like to get together and swirl in the revelation of God and understand the prophetic side of all of these things, that Jesus is our eternal high priest. Also connect that with 1 Peter, where we are called those who would priest unto the Lord. We’re a set-apart nation. We’re able to priest unto the Lord because we could come boldly to him by the blood of the lamb right Through to the throne of grace, because of the blood of the lamb, the one who would forever make atonement for our sins. So let’s look at Hebrews 4, 14.

Since we have a great high priest who was ascended into heaven, jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith which we profess, the power of our mouth. We hold firmly not just to the idea of going to church, but the faith in Christ as the Messiah, the eternal lamb that we profess, knowing that he is our high priest that has atoned for the blood, the guilt and the sin of us who have received him, and also, in future reference to those who would come into him and receive him and believe him, prophetically even pointing towards Israel, who would receive him as their Messiah before his second coming, because they’re provoked to jealousy as we begin to understand the power of who he is In our lives, our Messiah, our great high priest. Gentiles who we don’t even understand these things, who are able to enter into the revelation of them by the power of the Holy Spirit because we’ve come to know him. Yeah, intimacy, it all goes back to intimacy.

And so Yom Kippur, the priest, interceded, but Jesus continually intercedes, offering eternal atonement through his cross, through his blood. Do you know that? It says that the blood of Jesus speaks a better word than the blood of Abel? Abel’s blood was shed. It says that Abel’s blood continued to cry out, justify justice, justice, justify the sin of his death. Jesus’ blood intercedes on our behalf and on the behalf of those who don’t yet know him. He’s the lamb that was slain from the foundation of the earth, making intercession for us. Mercy, mercy, mercy. Opportunity to come even when we don’t even understand the power of who he is as our intercessor. So Tabernacles, how that connects.

So Feast of Tabernacles follows the day of atonement. We’ll be entering into that on Friday, september the 28th. We’ll be entering into the Feast of Tabernacles, and it is a time of feasting, it is a time of recognizing that he has come to dwell with us, and so let’s think about that for just a second. It’s also known as Sakat. It commemorates when God’s presence was with the Israelites in the desert, in the wilderness. They dewelled in temporary booths, which is why booths or tents are built outside of the house, to remember the time when they had to dwell with God in the wilderness, and it was a time when God would immerse them in the shadow of his glory. He came in and actually brought the power of his presence, and if you know this whole story, it’s really profound, because at the beginning of their Exodus, the voice of the Lord came and invited them near, and they rejected that. They were terrified. They only wanted Moses to go into the mountain, and then the mountain burned with fire, and it was like you know you guys are going to reject coming to me. Don’t come to me. Even your animals will be killed if they approach the mountain because of your rejection of my voice.

And so here’s, I’m going to take us into something even more profound in just a moment. How God always has redemption in his storyline, he always longs to draw near to us, even when we reject that opportunity. And so this Lord cloud is in the wilderness as they’re dwelling out in the wilderness, his presence is there with them to cover them, to protect them and to allow them to know peace and safety and then such a promulgious or a trying time that they were in. And so it carries this profound significance and it also it encapsulates the journey of Moses and the Israelites. It offers us a revelation of not just the tabernacle but also the table, and so these two elements are so important. You see, both the tabernacle and the table in the temple of the Lord. The table is in the holy of holies. It’s a place where Brad is placed for the Lord. It’s a place where you know there’s an opportunity to time with God himself. For them, the high priest is just, if you begin to study this stuff, it just blows your mind, because all of these things are types and prophetic shadows that point towards our opportunity to come totally to the throne of grace, which is where we can receive mercy, but so that we can receive mercy, so we can come and dine with him.

If you look at Exodus 24, 9 through 11, you see the Lord setting a table for Moses and 70 other Israelites after they’ve rejected After the people rejected the presence of God and they have this, you know, time of rejection, where they actually worship other idols. The Lord, actually Yahweh, invites Moses to come up the mountain, and he’s not alone. In Exodus, chapter 24, verses 9 through 11. There’s 70 others there. Don’t set the table.

It reminds me of Psalm 23 when he says and I will set a table before you in the presence of your enemies and I will anoint your head with oil. Your cup will overflow. There is absolutely nothing, nothing that the enemy can do to pull those who are hungry away from the presence of God, because he will chase after us. He will bring us into the intimacy and the beauty of dining with him. So he covers them with his glory cloud and the wilderness he provides for them fire at night to protect them from the cold. Listen, and we’re not talking about wilderness like woods, we’re talking about desert land. Okay, it’s cold at night, it’s hot during the day. And he does not leave them or forsake them, even in their sin and idolatry, and that he takes the 70 and he calls them up. Can you imagine the table of the Lord, god’s table, being set before you In the presence of those that have rejected and they don’t even know it’s going on? And you’re sitting down. This is before the incarnation of Christ, and they’re sitting with him in a table and they’re feasting with him and they’re dining with him and he’s commissioning them and, don’t you know, he’s transforming them. So it carries profound implications for us.

It echoes a table of transfiguration, an opportunity of transfiguration that we see that the disciples get a little foretaste of in Matthew 17, where there’s three that are with Jesus and they’re waiting with him and they’re up on the mountain and then, all of a sudden, they are falling asleep on their watch. They didn’t recognize the beauty of who Jesus was. They didn’t recognize that he was like God incarnate. Right, they thought they did, but they’re hearts, they’re slumbering, and so Jesus is transfigured and there’s Elijah and there’s Moses. And all of a sudden Peter wakes up, wipes the sleep from his eyes and he’s like, oh, wow, I get to be a part of this. Let me build, all three of you, a tabernacle. You see where this tabernacle and table thing keeps coming in together.

Tabernacle is a presence. It’s the presence of the Lord, it’s the covering of the Lord, it’s the place of meeting with God. And then the voice of the Lord comes and is like ah, ah, peter, no, because this is my son, jesus is the Messiah and whom I’m well pleased. Listen to him. There is no other there is. He is not equal to Elijah, he’s not equal to Moses, there is no other. Listen to him, peter, be quiet, listen to him. And so there’s this connection.

I believe even in the table and the tabernacle and the presence and recognizing Jesus as the fulfillment of these things, but also propelling us towards, in the future, a prophetic understanding of that which has not been fulfilled.

There’s a promise of his coming, his first coming. We read about it through the Old Covenant, the Old Testament. We read it, isaiah 53. We read Daniel, we read all of these books that prophesy both of the first coming of Yeshua the Messiah and the second coming of Yeshua the Messiah. And so in this moment, we’re understanding the dining that we get to take to partake in with him, because he is the blood, he is the atonement, he is the scapegoat, he is the lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world. And so this sacred moment not only affirmed Jesus as the Son of God and the promised Messiah in Matthew 17, but it foreshadowed his indwelling presence back to tabernacles so caught. It foreshadowed that, when they came out of the wilderness and they’re celebrating this feast of foods, that that was fulfilled and will be fulfilled as his indwelling presence would come into his people. This is deep cry out in the deep. Who will come near who will draw near.

And so we are the temple of God. He came to transform us into vessels of his glory, invites us into a table with him. John 1.14 unveils the breathtaking reality. Listen to this. And the word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. See, when you begin to understand these appointed times or these feasts of the Lord on the calendar of the Lord, you also begin to come into a deeper revelation of what we would call the new covenant. It’s actually the new winescan. We so often use that language. But this is the new winescan in which you would pour out his blood, his new wine.

And so we begin to understand that we are the dwelling place of God, because the word became flesh so that he could come and to dwell among us, make us his dwelling place. So, just as God tabernacled with his people in the wilderness, jesus came to dwell among us, manifesting the fulfillment of saccad. So why do we celebrate saccad? Well, we don’t have to, but listen. We listen to the revelation that we get to enter into and understanding the fulfillment of these things. There are no longer words on a page. They become the word in us, manifested through us, and even, I believe, at the end of the age, at the end of this time that we live in will provoke the chosen of the Lord to jealousy, because they begin to see how we’re communing with the true Messiah. The fulfillment of these things, as we do them not under the law, but we do them by the power of the spirit, and the power of his spirit will come and transform us through these things. So the prophetic connection here is how this all weaves together for us. So we get to embrace this revelation. We get to embrace this transformation that Yom Kippur points towards the forgiveness of our sins through Christ. It invites us beyond forgiveness into transformation. Just as the Israelites dwell in temporary booths, we are called to be transformed and transfigured by Jesus as we partake in his nature and gleaming from these appointed times Think about 2 Corinthians, 3, 18,.

It beckons us and we all who, with unveiled faces, contemplate the Lord’s glory being transformed into his image with an ever increasing glory. We just sit in that for a minute, unveiled faces. Moses came with a veiled face, comes down out of the mountain it’s the vellus face because that glory would fade. And you and I come with unveiled faces because the glory of the Lord, as we allow him to dwell in us richly will shine, burn through us. As my friend Wayland Henderson says, we become the blessed bread and the poured out wine to those who do not know him. We become a representation of a priest that can go before the great high priest, go before Yahweh and plead for the covering of the sins and the entrance of those who don’t know him into the kingdom, into the family of God. It’s such a powerful thing. So Jesus is the perfect sacrificial lamb.

You think about this scapegoat that was sent out. You think about the 40 years. As prophesier, I should just say the story that is told, that the 40 years before Jesus came, that the scarlet thread no longer turned white, that something was changing. They’re in a threshold. They’re beginning to walk through a time where their minds have to change, their view has to change. He’s giving them time, just like the 40 years in the wilderness, to transform their thinking, to look forward to a fulfillment of this action that they do year after year.

Isaiah 53 paints a vivid picture of Jesus as a suffering servant who bore our inequities. His sacrifice, unlike that of the scapegoat, is perfect and sinless. He atones for the sins of the world. If you have a background in Abrahamic religion and knowing that, abraham if you look at Genesis 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, abraham was given a promise that through him all the nations of the earth would be blessed. So there’s an Abrahamic covenant that actually includes all the nations of the earth. And the fulfillment of that covenant with Abraham allowed for the sacrifice of the Son of God, the perfect one, without sin, to come, to be bruised, to be broken, to bleed. And that wouldn’t be his first coming. There would be another when he comes in the future, that would be victorious and all the nations would be drawn to him. But this Isaiah 53 points towards him, jesus, the one that was sacrificed, the slain lamb before the foundation of the earth. The same lamb that we see seated on the throne in Revelation. The same lamb in Revelation 7, 17,. The same lamb in Revelation 5, where he’s still the slain lamb that makes atonement, the high priest that cries out for the salvation of both Israel, yes, henish male, the Gentile nations, but no one can come to the Father except by him. Let’s look at Isaiah 53. But he was peers for our transgressions First five. He was crushed by our inequities and upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed.

As we approach these appointed times, sacred seasons, we got to remember that they’re not mere historical traditions, they’re not just Jewish feasts, they’re appointments with God that open our eyes and paint a prophetic picture for us, those of us that are hard of hearing and hard of thinking. We can’t enter into Revelation without him. There are types and shadows of Christ that would come, yeshua, that would come and bridge the gap for all to come to Yahweh, to know Him. They’d pour out a spirit he would dwell in us and through us, drawing us into intimacy with Him that we could stand before Him and agree with His intercession and His prayers and say that we could bring forth the answer to the groan of creation as the sons of God began to be unveiled and know who they are with unveiled faces, understand that this is an invitation for all to come to know Him.

And at the end of the age, the eternal storyline turns back around the Gentiles who were grafted in. Look at Peter and the sheep that came down. We were the untouchables At the end of the age. We, those of us who are falling, love, sick and love Jesus, coming to know Him, partaking in these appointed times and understanding prophetically that they’re not law for us, but they’re invitations for us to begin to understand in our heart of hearts, to be transformed by Him, to be transfigured at a table with Him, that we become the glory, that we become His glory. We become the bride is the glory right of the husband, her hair is the glory. That’s what it says. We become the representation of His glory to those that do not know Him, as we partake of Him and we increase in Him.

Listen, if you think you know everything there is to know about Him, then you have settled for so much less because we are so, so, so broken and empty and without anything to offer Him in and of ourselves. We’ll spend all of eternity coming to know Him more. This is not just, you know, we don’t just get there and arrive. There’s always more and this is why I love doing this podcast for you guys, because you’re the revelators, you’re the ones that like to jump in, to understanding Him more, and I’m going to label for you, in these next few weeks and months to come, more about prophecy and intercession and how they connect. But this is an invitation into intercession, the intercession with Him, to draw all men under Him, not into us, but he uses us.

The older we get, the more mature we get in Him, the more we realize we don’t know. The more we come to know Him, the more we realize we don’t know Him. And it’s a beautiful chase, it’s a beautiful tension that we get to enter into, and so I would like to invite you and you’ll probably watch this at a later time, but those of you that are watching this within the first 24 hours of its release to come out with us in this teeny, tiny town called 96, south Carolina, september the 28th through the 30th, where we’re going to be actually feasting. We’re going to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. We’re going to set a huge table and it’s going to be a table of encounter, where we’re going to feast together. We’re going to believe God, to take us through the threshold and take us into a transformation as we break the bread together.

Listen, I believe that he wants us to encounter Him in a way even greater than Moses. Right, we come into the blood of the Lamb, we start believing for more as we come out and do 24 hours of worship and prayer. What would he do? How would he move in our hearts if we don’t just do it because we’re supposed to do it, but we do it because we’re hungry and we want Him, when we’re the bride who’s being made ready for her husband, the bride that would be the glory of her husband to shine brightly for her bridegroom. And if you can’t make it out to South Carolina, you can go on the website for more details.

If you can’t make it out to South Carolina, I want to encourage you, with your family, to set a table, to go outside and enjoy just His presence and nature and realize the power of what we have as we enter into Him, realize the power of being able to come in through the blood of the Lamb. We don’t have to lay our hands on a goat. We don’t have to make a sacrifice and have our sins atoned for because it’s already been done. It’s not to give us a license to sin and forget all the things, especially these beautiful things. It’s for us to celebrate. We willingly go and we go away from all the noise with our families and say let’s pray, let’s worship, build a booth, build a tent outside, but more than that, let the Lord restore the family table, the table where we commune with Him and dine with Him, where we’re thankful of who we are in Him, and let the revelation really grip you and get in you deeply.

And so I just want to thank you so much for joining me. I want to pray for you, but I want you to remember that this is about experiencing Christ’s glory, his presence. As you approach the feast, prepare your heart to be transformed and transfigured. So, father, I pray right now for those that are watching. God, that you would bring in powerful revelation and unveiling of this message. I know it’s a lot of information, lord, especially those of us who were considered ourselves gentiles. We’re truly sons and daughters of yours and you’re just kind of taking us on this journey of understanding more of these prophetic revelations as a people in this hour.

I know that it’s happening across the world and we confess like I don’t know everything. I just want to know you. We confess together what you don’t know. We don’t know how to celebrate these things, but we celebrate you, jesus.

I’m asking you to unveil the power of this revelation and those that may be watching, who don’t know you, that may have a background of Judaism or even a background of Islam, god, that you would encounter them, jesus, that you would encounter them as the man in white, that you would encounter them as the lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world, that you were really so much freedom to know you, god, that you would show those of us that live in your presence as those who loved you deeply. God, setting us apart, consecrating us for your glory. God, I pray that you would unveil the eyes of those who do not know you, those that have been blinded to the truth of who you are. This Isaiah 53 will be read and shouted from the rooftops, pointing to the Messiah who has come and will come again, one who came as a suffering servant but will return as a lion who roars. Jesus, we love you so much and part your beauty to those that are watching the spirit of revelation be released in Jesus’ name. Amen and amen Until next time.

Fiery ones, I pray that you have a powerful encounter with the Lord, that you feast at the table with the king, that you keep hungry and thirsting for righteousness and that you let him be the one whom you feast on every single day. I pray for revival in your prayer life, in your time of study and in your family. Thank you so much for joining me again. If you enjoy this message, if you enjoy these podcasts, please share them, please subscribe to our channel and you know also that’s right our email list. Jump on the email list so you don’t miss an episode. Love you so much. I pray for the power of God to follow you and to accompany you in everything that you do, in Jesus’ name, amen.

Thank you for listening to this episode of Burning Messengers. You don’t want to miss what’s coming next week, so if you haven’t subscribed, please do so wherever you listen to podcasts. And if this word touched your heart, please rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts. To connect with Tammy, follow her on social media or visit You don’t have to burn alone.

Join me and my good friend Jake Hale as we share our experiences of deliverance, exploring its importance and the need for more of it in the body of Christ. We discuss Jake’s powerful personal story of being delivered from demons and how God’s compassion is moving within this ministry. While we touch on the issues that arise when people build their own platforms, our conversation is grounded in our shared belief in the power of God to set people free.

Our conversation further ventures into the significance of prophetic purity in ministry and how to maintain it. Together, we explore the delicate balance between public ministry and private devotion, and how neglecting the latter can lead to disaster. We discuss the importance of staying rooted in our identity in Christ, so that ministry does not become our identity. Jake, an apostolic leader in Pennsylvania, offers valuable insights into the emergence of God’s messengers and the beginnings of revival.

We delve into the potential dangers when the enemy exploits the power of God’s sons and daughters for personal gain, expressing our shared grief when something so holy and intimate is used for malicious purposes. Our conversation serves as a reminder of the need to stay alert to the enemy’s schemes and that God longs to set his people free. Whether you’re called to prophetic ministry or simply seeking a deeper understanding of deliverance, Jake’s insights, grounded in humility and compassion, are sure to inspire. Don’t miss his powerful prayer for deliverance and a deeper revelation of Jesus.

Where to dive in:

(0:00:00) – The Power of Deliverance

Jake and I discussed God’s power to set us free, deliverance in the body of Christ, and potential issues of self-promotion.

(0:09:21) – Maintaining Purity and Humility in Ministry

Jake and I discuss prophetic purity, public/private devotion, blessing/brokenness, and staying hungry for God.

(0:23:10) – The Importance of Compassion and Humility

God’s power, enemy’s schemes, prophetic word, and Spirit’s grief discussed to remain alert and free.

(0:33:09) – Staying Rooted and Trusting the Lord

Jake encourages trust in the Lord, staying rooted in identity in Christ, and revival, for God’s purpose and glory.

About the guest:

Jake Kail is a pastor, author and conference speaker who is passionate about living without shadows in a culture of compromise. Jake and his family live in Lancaster, PA where he serves as lead pastor of Threshold Church.

About the host: 

Tammie Southerland is the host of Burning Messengers and the author of Permission To Bur: Breaking the Chains of Compromise from a Holy Generation. She is also a speaker and prophetic minister. She releases the sound authentic of revival and messages from heaven as she travels. Her lifestyle is one of prayer and digging deep into the Word of God, her desire is to releasing the Heart of The Father in these last days. She moves in power ministry and is known for releasing the Matthew 3:11“baptism of Holy Fire” as she goes. ⁠

Buy Tammie’s Book “Permission to Burn: Breaking the Chains of Compromise from a Holy Generation” here⁠: ⁠


0:00:00 – Tammie Southerland
It’s such an important concept, jake, that we understand, even within our own heart, that we can open the door for the enemy to come in and distract us and turn us away from that place of hunger and that place of longing and that place of brokenness. And for me it’s such an important prayer I guess that I pray on a daily basis that he keep me humble, because it’s walking in that place of anointing and blessing that actually should cause us to realize how much it’s not about us. You know how much of it is his anointing. It’s not about me, it’s not me, it’s him, and I mean I just think that’s such a significant thing. Demonic deliverance. Today I’m going to talk with my good friend, Jake Kail, about his story of being delivered from demons, and he and I are going to get into a conversation about why God is moving in this ministry from the place of compassion. We’re going to talk about why we need to see it more in the body of Christ, but we’re also going to talk about why there’s maybe a problem with it, with people building their own platforms. If you guys need to see deliverance in your church or in your ministry, maybe you need to have deliverance for yourself.

This is a podcast that you want to be a part of. Hey guys, so glad you are back with us for the Burning Messengers podcast. I’m so excited. Today I have a friend of mine with me. His name is Jake Kail. He is a powerful man of God, not just in what he does in ministry, but who he is as a father, who he is as a leader and as a pastor, but, most of all, who he is as a son of God. He is a leader, an apostolic leader in Pennsylvania over his local church, and he’s also has a lot of equipping ministry that he does in the area of deliverance through podcasts and different types of things like that. Jake, thank you so much for being a part of this with us. Thank you for jumping onto this podcast.

0:02:19 – Jake Kail
Yeah, tammy, thanks so much. It’s great to be here. Look forward to this conversation. I’m sure it’s going to be a great conversation, thanks.

0:02:25 – Tammie Southerland
Absolutely Well, jake, tell us a little bit about yourself. I’d like to know. You know just who is Jake Kail? I know, but can you let everybody else know who are you? What’s a little bit of your story? How did you find yourself where you are right now?

0:02:40 – Jake Kail
Yeah, so just a kind of a quick version. I mean, I grew up in a great Christian family hearing about the gospel, hearing about Jesus, but when I was 19 years old really had a true encounter with God. It was a deep work of repentance, encountering God’s love, and I was dramatically set free from the power of sin, different bondages to sin, and it just kind of propelled me into a just a deep walk with the Lord, hungering for him, devouring his word, and just kind of progressed from that over the last 20 years. And, yeah, I’m married to my wife Anna, we have three amazing kids, live in Pennsylvania, and so, yeah, I’m helping to lead a church here as well and do some, some writing, some speaking, some traveling, and so, yeah, I just have a heart for for God, have a heart for the presence of God, know who more to advance this kingdom, and a real passion to see other people set free and just delivered from all types of depression, oppression, bondage, torment, and so, yeah, just a quick, quick snapshot there.

0:03:36 – Tammie Southerland
Yeah, and so deliverance is a real passion of yours, because you personally experience deliverance and and you share about that a lot in your podcast in different areas. Just an understanding of this is a personal thing for you, and so tell us a little bit. Like what were you set free from? What did, what did God do in the area of deliverance for you personally?

0:03:57 – Jake Kail
Yeah, so, so yeah, when I was in middle school, I got exposed to pornography for the first time, just as from a classmate, and it just really planted a seed of sexual immorality and lust, perversion, and so I was drawn into sexual sin. I was also drawn into the party lifestyle drinking alcohol, partying, and you know, this whole time I would have considered myself a believer but was just really not really walking with the Lord. I was very deceived and I was in bondage to sin. And so, yeah, when I was 19, and I had this encounter I mean, it was a deep work of repentance, like I said earlier, but I was also dramatically set free and pornography was broken from my life. It was never a problem, ever again.

Just even the thoughts and all that, all that goes with that, just dramatically set free from that, and then also just the desire to drink and go party and get drunk, just yeah, also anger and anger issues and so, yeah, like so much of that, all that was just broken off of my life in this encounter with God. And so, like you said, I just became really passionate for other people to experience freedom. Because I experienced this freedom, I knew it was so real and I knew that this is for all of God’s people. Like Jesus wants people free, he paid the price for it. So, yeah, it’s definitely a passion of mine.

0:05:12 – Tammie Southerland
Yeah, and the thing about it is I’m like I have a similar story, a little bit different but similar story how God just literally set me free, delivered me particular bondages that I was wrestling with as a religious person for a really long time, but the power of the Holy Spirit came in and like literally set me free, and I think that’s why it says you know, he who’s forgiven much loves much. And there’s such a compassion, there’s such a passion in us to see others set free because we have been set free and it’s such a beautiful thing. And a lot of times I think we think that behavior modification can change everything, but God comes in by the power of the spirit and, out of compassion, sets us free, and so it’s such a powerful story. Guys, just listen to that.

If you’re even on the fence wondering, you know, is this real, Is it? You know the deliverance has been a big conversation lately. Is it real? How is God moving? He shares a lot and I actually just listened to one of his podcasts about the purity behind deliverance and how God is moving in this way. Jake, how does prayer shape your life and what does prayer have to do with moving in the power of God?

0:06:25 – Jake Kail
Yeah, I mean it’s all connected. I mean prayer. I mean early on in my walk with the Lord, God really highlighted to me that I need to become a person of prayer. I need to make that a top priority. I need to learn how to pray, spend time alone with the Lord in the secret place, and that’s the model we see of Jesus.

In Mark, chapter one, we see him doing all this ministry. He’s in a synagogue, he’s casting out a demon, All the people are coming, all the crowds are coming. He’s healing people, he’s casting out demons. But then in verse 35, it says early in the morning, before the sun rose, he goes out to a solitary place, all by himself, and there it says he prayed. And I believe that is a secret to the ministry of Jesus is the secret place, and that’s what he taught us in Matthew 6. He said when you pray, go in your room, shut the door, pray to your father in the secret place. And so that really has just become.

You know, early on in my walk became just the most important thing for me. I personally believe that all true ministry flows out of intimacy with God. All true ministry flows from that place, from the secret place, from that private devotion, that place of personal connection with the Lord. I think that’s what allows that fruit to be produced and for it to be done in a healthy, biblical, compassionate way, because our roots are going deep into God himself and then we’re able to just follow his voice and be led by his spirit. But it comes from that place of relationship and intimacy with the Lord.

0:07:54 – Tammie Southerland
That’s right. And when you teach on deliverance, when you talk about deliverance, when you function deliverance, one thing that you have said is it’s not an end of itself, right, it’s not something that you’re delivered and then that’s all, and you connect that with the lifestyle of prayer. Can you talk a little bit more about that process of connecting prayer with deliverance? And you know why? Is it not just the demon leaves and we’re good?

0:08:24 – Jake Kail
Yeah, because you know deliverance you know, like you said, they’re like it’s not meant to be an end in and of itself. In other words, it’s meant to propel us into more of God. So it’s not just about getting rid of oppression or torment, as great as that is. I mean, yes, that’s a key component, because if those things are there, if there’s demonic influence in our life, then we can’t seem to move forward, we can’t seem to break free, we can’t seem to grow in our walk with the Lord. But it’s not just about getting free. It’s once we are free, now we’re free to know God more, Now we’re free to grow in holiness, Now we’re free to step into our purpose or walk in our giftings. And so I think it’s really key for deliverance to be connected to discipleship, spiritual growth, prayer and just really. If we keep the relationship with the Lord central and the main focus, I think that’s going to really solve a lot of problems foundationally and that’s going to keep us on a good track in this whole area.

0:09:21 – Tammie Southerland
Absolutely. Do you think that in our current state, our up and coming emerging voices and even our age group of ministers, do you think we have a current state where we are maybe teetering a little bit off on the wrong side, is God trying to bring us back into a place of purity? What does that look like for us right now?

0:09:44 – Jake Kail
Yeah, I mean, I think there’s always the opportunity for corruption to come in to any kind of area of ministry. So, whether it’s deliverance, whether it’s the prophetic or other areas, we have to always make sure we are recalibrating to the heart of God and we are just keeping our roots deep into him. And so, yeah, I do think that sometimes different things might creep in to different areas of ministry, including deliverance, where sometimes it becomes more of a spectacle, or sometimes we make it about us as the minister. Right, I always say deliverance is a ministry of compassion for the oppressed. It’s not meant to be about me as a minister. It’s not meant to be about the demons.

Although we have to address and cast out the demons, we shouldn’t be demon centered with deliverance. We should be Christ centered with deliverance and we should be compassionate towards the people. So, yeah, sometimes I get, you know, concerned that maybe we could veer off a little bit and they can become more of a spectacle, more about the one ministering. And so, yeah, I just have a heart to see a pure expression, that we keep it biblical. We don’t have to deviate into all kinds of other things that are outside of scripture. We can just keep it with the scripture. We can keep it compassionate, we can keep it centered on Jesus, focused on him, pointing people to him, and I think that’s going to help to see yeah, keep us where we need to be.

0:11:01 – Tammie Southerland
Yeah, so you talk a little bit about prophetic purity in ministry too. So we’re talking about different power manifestations. We’re also talking about the gifts of the spirit, and you and I have something in common that’s very strong and common it’s prayer and purity, those two words in when we’re talking about. You know, this is the burning messengers podcast. We’re talking about equipping messengers. How can we stay in the place where we’re tender before the Lord and we have prophetic purity and we have purity in our as we move in the power of God? How can we keep ourself in that place and not find ourselves like those whom he said he never knew, you know, even though they moved in the power gifts or they moved in the five full gifts?

0:11:48 – Jake Kail
Yes, that’s a great question. It’s a very important question. I think there’s some simple I mean there’s not necessarily a formula, but I think there’s some keys and I think that if we will prioritize the secret place, I think that’s going to be a huge, huge key. So it goes back to what I said earlier. You know, jesus had a balance of public ministry and private devotion and he balanced that out. We see that in Luke five, I think it’s verse 15 and 16. It says all the crowds were coming to hear him teach to be healed of their diseases, and it says so he often withdrew from the crowds to pray.

He made it a regular practice, and I think what can happen sometimes is is if we are growing in ministry, we’re growing in our calling, and especially in this area of supernatural ministry, whenever we’re moving in the power of God, it’s going to attract the attention of people, and so it can be dangerous if we have an expanding public influence but we have a shrinking private devotion. That is a recipe for disaster. That’s gonna. That’s gonna veer us off track. And so if we have to fight to keep the secret place, the number one thing, that’s gonna go a long way in keeping us on track If we will fight to keep the secret place as the main, as that main thing. I think that’s a huge part of maintaining an atmosphere of purity, an expression of purity in all these areas of ministry. I think that’s so, so key. I mean, there’s obviously other areas. Something that the Lord was really showing me earlier is that we have to see a marriage between blessing and brokenness.

Those two are actually supposed to go together. And I saw this in Mark, chapter six, when Jesus was feeding the 5,000, it says he took the bread, he blessed it and he broke it. And for me that blessing represents God’s anointing, god’s empowerment, and that brokenness, to me, speaks of humility, speaks of compassion, speaks of dependence on the Lord. And if we walk in the blessing of God but we resist that process of brokenness, then that could get us on the wrong track as well, because we’re operating in power and God can give genuine gifts and we could walk in those gifts. But then what do we do with that? Will we yield to this process of allowing that humility, that dependence on him and just really keeping the focus on Jesus, really just keeping it on him and being intentional to humble ourselves and to point people to the Lord? But yeah, just marrying those two blessing and brokenness being married together, I think is just such an essential thing right now.

0:14:21 – Tammie Southerland
Wow, that’s so powerful Blessing and brokenness. And it says that blessed are the broken, for theirs is the kingdom. And everywhere you see the move of God in Scripture, everywhere you see the move of power in the New Testament it says the kingdom of heaven has come near, or the kingdom of heaven is here, or the kingdom of God is here, and so it’s blessed are the broken. That it’s that humility that actually makes way for the power of the kingdom to come and be manifest. And it’s such an important concept, jake, that we understand, even within our own heart, that we can open the door for the enemy to come in and distract us and turn us away from that place of hunger and that place of longing and that place of brokenness. And for me it’s such an important prayer, I guess, that I pray on a daily basis that he keep me humble, because it’s walking in that place of anointing and blessing. That actually should cause us to realize how much it’s not about us, how much of it it is his anointing. It’s not about me, it’s not me, it’s him, and I mean I just think that’s such a significant thing.

So we talk a lot. You have the Taurus Bearers podcast, this is the Burning Messengers podcast. We’re talking about equipping, we’re talking about raising up messengers at the end of the age, and we’re talking about this blessing and this anointing. We’re also talking about humility. How can we give those that maybe are coming up right now some real personal keys to keep humility at the forefront? How can they know if they’re beginning to turn towards a place where it is becoming a prideful gift or moving maybe in the wrong spirit?

0:16:28 – Jake Kail
Yeah, yeah, great question. Yeah, I’m just reminded of the Apostle Paul. It’s in 1 Corinthians 2, he said that when he came he wanted to know nothing but Jesus and him crucified. Christ and him crucified. And then, right after that, he said his message and his preaching was not with wise and persuasive words but with a demonstration of the power of God, the Holy Spirit and power. So again, I see a marriage between that brokenness, the cross, and then the power of God. And really Christ is the example. Just meditating on the cross, meditating on who Jesus is. It says in Philippians he lowered himself, he humbled himself first of all, just to come to this earth. God himself took on flesh, but then he also lowered himself to become a servant. And then he took it further and became obedient to death and this horrible, horrific, humiliating death on the cross. And so I think, just if we can maintain that attitude, like Paul said, man, I need to know Jesus, I need to know Jesus and him crucified, and I think that’s going to help us.

And then you know, how do we respond to other people’s praise? How do we respond to other people? It’s great to be encouraged, it’s great to receive compliments right, that’s nothing wrong with that? But how do we respond when you know people praise us because God works through us, or people look to us a certain way because God’s moving, do we feed on that or do we release that to the Lord, right? So you know, if somebody you know, because when God moves through you, people are going to be drawn, people are going to be drawn, people are going to look up to you.

Humans have a tendency to place others on a pedestal and we have to make the choice not to allow ourselves to receive worship, right, and that’s what we see the apostles doing. They tried to worship Paul and he said no, no, no, no, I’m just a person just like you, right, and so. So how do we respond when, when people are praising us, like, do we, do we allow that to feed our ego? Or do we just say, you know, thanks for the compliment? And then we just get to the Lord and we just, you know, we get in that secret place and we say God, it’s all you Like, apart from you, I can do nothing. And we recognize that it’s all because of his grace. We are dependent on him. If we’re walking in gifts, it’s because God gave it to us. If God’s using us, it’s because of his grace and just keeping that mindset. We have to continually remind ourselves of that.

And if we find ourselves starting to feed off of those things in a wrong way, then that’s time to just recalibrate. You know, do some fasting, just coming to God’s presence, and you know, fasting is one of the ways we humble ourselves. The Bible says Right. So, as you know, in Psalms it says I humbled myself with fasting. So, just, you know, finding those disciplines and those ways to maintain that healthy posture.

And then I think another key is having people around us that know us like just in everyday life, that don’t just know us when we’re on a platform preaching or ministering, but you know, like my wife and my kids, or you know my, you know the outer team where I serve, at right, people that I walk with on a daily basis, right, they just they see us for who we are, as real people, and just you know, allowing them to speak into our lives and just, yeah, just not not neglecting just that, that everyday life of just what it means to be a person that has, you know, just flesh, just like everybody else. Yeah, and yeah, not allowing ourselves to get elevated. It’s really key.

0:20:00 – Tammie Southerland
Yeah, it’s funny. I’m thinking about a mutual friend of ours, jeremiah Johnson. He always says you need to keep people around you that aren’t impressed with you. And he and I just back and forth and I’m like I’m that person, you know, in your life. I’m not impressed, but it is so true, you really do. You need to keep people in your life that aren’t necessarily impressed with you, but they are. You know, they see you, they see you day in and day out.

And Bill Johnson said it this way too, about receiving praise. He said that very often, you know, after you preach, after you minister, after God moves through you, people are like, oh, that was so good. And he said Bill said don’t say oh, it was, it was not me, it was God, but say thank you and then when you get into the secret place, go before the Lord and say I believe this belongs to you. You hand that honor right back to the Lord, and so I think that’s a good balance there. It’s like we’re not a worm but we, and we are, you know, his sons and daughters, but man. It’s him moving through us and there’s nothing like fasting and being around. You know people day in and day out that aren’t impressed with you. That’ll remind you. You know how much you do need the grace of God.

0:21:11 – Jake Kail
Amen. Yep, that’s very good, I love that. What you said about Bill Johnson Yep, I think it’s a great, great model, a great way to do that.

0:21:17 – Tammie Southerland
It is. I’ve, you know, personally adopted that for myself, but and I found the pleasure of the Lord comes over me with that as well you know something else I would like to know what are your thoughts on seeing deliverance more predominant in the church? Do you think there’s a lack of deliverance in the church? What are your thoughts on that?

0:21:45 – Jake Kail
Yeah, I mean it’s been interesting because you know I’ve been ministering deliverance for just about 18 years and you know the first 10 years was mainly in personal settings, praying for people individually, but then the last seven, eight years it’s been now more out in the open, in groups and churches and conferences, traveling, doing equipping, and so I mean I’ve been just really, you know, contending to see deliverance restored to the church because it’s such a key area of ministry.

I mean, it’s often a missing link in people’s journey of freedom, of healing, of sanctification and so. But as I see deliverance now becoming more and more out to the forefront, I think I have two responses. One is excited, like I’m excited because I just like I said, it’s such a key ministry and so I’m excited to see it getting more prominence, more attention and more churches are embracing it, more believers are becoming open to it. So that’s kind of one hand I feel, you know, excited about it. On the other hand, I feel a little bit nervous because it’s like once something becomes more and more out in the open and more prominent, almost like it becomes more popular, and then that leaves more room sometimes for some of that corruption to get in there, and so I kind of I’m kind of walking in that type of a balance where it’s like, yes, it’s awesome to see it getting out there, but I’m like just really, you know, hopeful that we can see it done in a pure and healthy way.

0:23:05 – Tammie Southerland
Yeah, and I feel the same way. And here’s the thing I think that compassion element, that humility element is what is so important in this conversation, and I was actually thinking about this earlier. Jake, your story, my story you’ve been moving, you know, in this for many years and a lot of people don’t really know who Jake Kale is, and that’s okay, they don’t really know. Jake Kale’s been doing deliverance ministry for 18 years and then, all of a sudden, you see, you know this become more out front, you become just, you see it become more popular and then it becomes, you know, an opportunity I guess for the lack of a better word to build a platform.

And earlier, you know, I was thinking about this, praying about this. Isn’t that interesting how that happens, how the enemy will even use something that kicks him out of commission to bring pride and arrogance into play in order to stop the power of God from moving through his sons and daughters. I just, I think that’s that’s just so shocking. But those of us that have been just walking with him for many years and just enjoying the fact that he likes to deliver his people or sit back and watching this, and we have mixed emotions about it.

0:24:28 – Jake Kail
Yeah, yeah, that’s a very interesting way to put it. Yeah, and hadn’t quite considered it the way you said it. Like that, tammy, it’s a very, yeah, very interesting way to put it. I think that definitely rings true and yeah, it is that.

It is that compassion element and I know like, for for me, very often when I minister deliverance to people, I mean I’m literally weeping.

There’s literally a weeping because it’s the love of God that just is coming through.

And when you hear people’s stories, you hear about some of the trauma that people have gone through, where people are confessing sins to you that they’ve never told another person, and it’s very vulnerable and it’s very just sometimes heart wrenching when you hear some of the abuse and some of the trauma, and it’s just the love of God is so there. I mean the Bible says that God is near to the broken hearted. He’s near to the broken hearted and so when these, when, when, when some are coming to you in that condition of that brokenness, that broken Hardiness, that trauma they’ve gone through, god comes near, and when his presence comes near, it’s like, yeah, there’s very often it’s I can’t help but just be weeping with under the compassion of the Lord, and so, then, to think that’s something like that, that is so intimate and beautiful and holy, I can, could be exploited, you know, could be exploited for personal gain, for Influence, for money, for popularity. It’s just, it’s. It’s very heartbreaking. I think it’s grieving. It’s grieving to the Lord.

0:25:58 – Tammie Southerland
Yeah, even as you’re speaking, like I’m literally feeling the grieving of the spirit, I literally feel a groan welling up in me, tears coming, because I do believe it’s.

It’s such an important topic to his heart right now that we remember that that he hates to see his sons and daughters in bondage, he hates to see the captive captive and In this movement, even what we’ve asked him to move in signs and wonders, we’ve asked him to move in deliverance, that we have to remember that we, we have an enemy that would love To capitalize on the very thing that he wants to bring forth and I believe, is, you know, the birth pangs of revival, is the birth pangs of you know, the answer to our cries for him to come and release justice in the earth.

Because you know, I don’t know about you, but I can walk into a room and I can feel the bondage on people and it literally breaks my heart, it makes me weak. There’s, like I’ve said this before, in just in a room, before you know, I want to speak at a place that I hate seeing people in bondage, whether it’s a religious spirit or it’s. You know, it’s trauma from their past and that’s the, that’s the compassion of the Lord, and so I even feel like right now, god is actually releasing a warning to us that I’m moving with power. But be alert and be aware, because you do have an enemy that that would love To to you know. Take you down with him right now.

0:27:38 – Jake Kail
I agree hundred percent. Yep, it’s right on.

0:27:40 – Tammie Southerland
Yeah, because this is longing to see the captain of set free. I mean, oh, I don’t even have, I can’t even, I can’t even explain that to the way, to the level that I feel it. But Anyway, so if you are able to really speak into the lives of those whom God is raising up right now, just Even prophetically, because that’s really a lot of our desire with this podcast, is to tell the messengers, the emerging messengers, the current messengers of the Lord, whether they’re in the church or they’re in the, you know, in the marketplace. We want to express to them that they don’t have to burn alone, in that they, you know, there’s a place for them to grow. I just wanted you to take like five to ten minutes, jake, and just really speak directly into those that are listening.

0:28:29 – Jake Kail
Yeah, yeah, what an honor. And you know you’re right, god is God’s raising up voices, god’s raising up messengers and you know, I just I want to encourage when we all have a process. Every calling has a process to it. And you know John the Baptist.

He was in the wilderness Until the day of his manifestation, it says in Luke 180. He had a process, he had a time of waiting, he had a time of just being completely unknown and God used that time. Joseph had his time Right. He was sold into slavery, he was betrayed, he was imprisoned. After, after obeying God, he ended up in prison. Right all these years go by David, he had his calling, he received the prophetic word from Samuel. He even goes and takes out Goliath and he goes into this incredibly challenging trial with King Saul being chased out, being hunted down, solving paranoid about him.

And so with every Calling, there is a process, there is a process, and Sometimes, when you’re in the middle of that process, you, you think it’s never gonna end. You think I’m always gonna be in this wilderness, I’m always gonna be in this season, because that’s all you can see. You can’t see any way to the fulfillment of that calling. And so my encouragement is yield yourselves to God, trust God with your own journey, with your own process. It’s not a formula. There’s no exact same way, but there’s patterns. We see this pattern in scripture God gives a calling, then there’s a time of preparation, then there is a release, a commissioning, and so I think there are many emerging messengers right now in that place of training, of preparation, of Preparing of wilderness, of testing, and God uses that. God uses that to refine us, god uses that to equip us, god uses that to bring that place of humility and brokenness. So don’t despise that season.

If you’re in that season, if you’re one of those ones that might be in that season where it just doesn’t seem like there’s any way you can even get to that end of your calling, that fulfillment of your Calling, that’s Joseph being in prison. How could he ever be elevated to a place of authority like he had seen in his dream so many years ago? It seemed very impossible. But when the time is right, when God says it’s time, there is a change of seasons and then Joseph gets elevated to that place. But now he’s ready to carry that weight. I mean, imagine being placed in that type of a prominent position. You are second in command to Pharaoh. You’re making decisions. You’re I mean, you’re pretty much calling the shots.

That that’s a weighty type Position and some of the callings that that, that you have those who are watching this and listening to this. Some of your callings are very weighty callings and we’re called to carry the word of God. We’re called to be prophetic messengers or called to speak his word. I mean, think about the prophets in the Old Testament. It said that they were to stand in the counsel of God, that they were to be sent by God, they were to speak the word of God. These are weighty, weighty roles and responsibilities.

And so if you’re in that season where you just feel like things just aren’t happening and there’s trials, there’s betrayals, there’s confusion, I just want to release peace over you, grace over you, encouragement to you, and use this season to continue to cultivate the intimacy with the Lord. Use that season to cultivate the secret place. Use that season to let your roots go deeper and deeper into him. Because once the season shifts and then there begins to be more fruitfulness, there begins to be more activity, there begins to be more fulfillment and open doors, you’re bringing the step in your gifting if you haven’t cultivated that deep place of intimacy, those roots then aren’t going to be deep enough to sustain that fruitfulness. And that’s, you know, that leads to some of the stuff we talked about earlier, or some of the corruption, can come in and we can get off track. But if you’ll use that season of preparation to just let your heart be tenderized before God, let the roots go deep into him, deepen his word, deep in the secret place, deep in prayer, then when God begins to move and send you out, then you have that root system to sustain you, to strengthen you, to stabilize you.

And and then I think God’s also teaching us to find our identity first and foremost as sons and daughters. Yeah, that’s part of what this wilderness is about, this part of what the training is about, part of what the preparation is about. He wants our identity to be rooted first and foremost as a for me, a son right, for you, tammy, a daughter Right. So God wants that to be the foundation of our identity. Yeah, because that’s the only, that’s the only place of deep security and stability in him. That’s where Jesus was rooted, even before he was sent out to minister. He was baptized by John the Baptist and the father spoke. This is my son, whom I love. With him I’m well pleased. That was before he cast out a demon I that was before he preached his first sermon. That was before he healed the sick.

God wants us to stay in that place so that ministry does not become an idol. Ministry does not become what we need to fulfill our lives. And yes, there’s a reality of calling, yes, there’s a reality of gifting. That’s all real. That’s not the foundation of our identity and that’s part of what God’s wanting to build into us. Those messengers that are being prepared right now, those burning ones, those torchbearers God is training us so that we are rooted in our identity in Christ, so that ministry does not become our identity. That’s going to go such a long way into keeping us pure, on the right track, rooted in God, for the long run.

We want longevity. We don’t just want to be a flash in the pan and come on the scene and just burst and then all of a sudden we get pulled away. God’s after longevity, endurance, long-term fruit, lasting fruit, eternal fruit. And so trust the Lord in your own process, wherever you’re at in that journey. Trust the Lord in that process. Just continue to yield yourself to him, keep saying yes to him every day, keep saying yes to him, yes to the calling, yes to obedience, walk in his grace, and you’ll be amazed at how God will continue to unfold and just connect and make things, just make a way for what he’s doing through you, because it’s really all about what he’s doing and what his calling is.

So, yeah, I think we’re in an incredible time in the body of Christ. Like you said, we’re seeing birth, pangs of revival. We’re seeing just beginnings of decades of prayer that have been prayed. Just for all these years of crying out, I believe God’s just beginning to show us the first signs of answer to that. We’re seeing a lot of changing of the guard, because we’re seeing those who have been generals, those who have been leading, just coming to. Maybe they’ve passed away or they’re getting older, they’re passing the baton. So it really is a very key time in the body of Christ at large, and so I would not be surprised at all over this next five years, 10 years, to see an emergence of many of these messengers that, just like John the Baptist, have been in the wilderness. Nobody knows who they are, but God knows who they are and God will bring them on the scene at the right time, at the right time in the right place, and it’s all for His purpose, all for His kingdom, all for His glory.

0:35:48 – Tammie Southerland
Amen, Amen. And I just want to say this as he was speaking, my heart was stirred. I believe there’s somebody that’s watching maybe a few of you and you’ve actually felt a lot of pressure. You’ve been trying to figure out. You know you’re emerging or how do you fit or where’s your voice and I feel like the Lord really wants you to know that the pressure is off, that the calling is to be a son, a daughter. This is who you are and then he’s been deepening those roots for you and solidifying for you your identity as a son and a daughter, not so you can get into ministry well, but so that you will know how to walk eternally in who you are.

And so the pressure right now to perform, or the pressure to be in a position, is off of you completely. It’s not a punishment. You’ve not been put on the shelf. It’s actually because he loves you so deeply that he wants you to know that your eternal identity is His Son, His daughter, and I just wanted to release that. Right now. It’s feeling that burning in my heart. Jake, can you pray, just as we close out, for those that are watching?

0:37:01 – Jake Kail
Absolutely yeah, but love to yeah. Father, I thank you so much for every person watching this right now. God, wherever they’re at in their journey, god, I pray, I pray your Holy Spirit would come upon them in a tangible way even right now. Let the power of the Holy Spirit come upon them. Let your love fill their hearts. God, I pray for those that need deliverance.

I pray for that same anointing of Isaiah 61, lord, that would heal the broken heart and set the captive free. In the name of Jesus, god, would you come and minister even freedom. But right now, in the name of Jesus, I break the power, that spirit of heaviness. I command every spirit of heaviness and oppression to come out, to lift off every spirit of fear to leave the people now, in Jesus’ name, every spirit of infirmity I command to go. In Jesus’ name and God, I pray a fresh baptism of the Holy Spirit. Let your Holy Spirit, god, come upon each one in a fresh way. Give us a deeper revelation of Jesus. Empower us, god, to carry your heart, your love, your fire. God, make us messengers of fire, god, those burning ones. I pray your grace, I pray your blessing, your hand upon each one right now, father, in Jesus’ name, amen.

0:38:11 – Tammie Southerland
Amen. Thank you so much, jake Guys, jake has abundance of resources. He’s got a podcast called Torchbearers. He has multiple books that he’s written on the ministry of deliverance and different things. I believe, jake, you have a book, new book you’re releasing right now also, am I right?

0:38:29 – Jake Kail
Yes, I’m working on it right now. It’s planning to be released over the summer. It’s a book on the secret place called Living from the Secret Place. But yeah, all my stuff is on my website. All my books and resources are on my website.

0:38:40 – Tammie Southerland
Amen. So that’s Jake We’re going to have all of that information for you in the description. Follow him, get your hands on some of these resources and man, he’s a wealth of information and he’s as pure hearted as it gets. Y’all know that is so important to me to bring you burning messengers who have a pure heart and they’re actually walking out and living the message that they preach. So thank you so much, jake, for joining us. Thank you, guys, for being with us again this week. Remember you don’t have to burn alone. Be sure to share this out and, you know, let other people benefit from knowing that they don’t have to burn alone. They don’t have to be burning ones that are sitting somewhere in isolation. We love you, guys. Thank you so much again for being with us this week.

0:39:29 –
Thank you for listening to this episode of Burning Messengers. You don’t want to miss what’s coming next week. So if you haven’t subscribed, please do so wherever you listen to podcasts. And if this word touched your heart, please rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts. To connect with Tammy, follow her on social media or visit frontlinefireorg. You don’t have to burn alone.

In this enlightening conversation, we tackle the weighty topic of Jesus as the faithful witness. Listen in as we examine why Jesus gave us life and held steadfast to his testimony until his death. We explore the profound meaning behind Revelation 5 and the significance of Jesus’ return imprinted in our DNA. With a rising number of pastors and leaders standing up and teaching the scriptures, we discuss how this prepares an entire generation for his second coming. As someone who has been preaching this message for almost 20 years, I share my personal journey and insights on how to respond to this message.

In the second part of our discussion, we delve into what it means to be an apostolic witness, taking into account the groaning of creation and our own groaning as sons and daughters of God. We contemplate the end time groaning and the urgent messages that have been sent out, emphasizing the need to focus on the intensity of what is happening around us, rather than the time. We also consider the danger of not finishing well and the grace of God that is available to us, encouraging listeners to fix their eyes on what is unseen and follow John the Baptist’s example as a true witness.

Lastly, we shift our focus to understanding our identity as beloved disciples of Jesus. We discuss the importance of transitioning from identifying ourselves by what we can do to realizing we are loved by Jesus. We explore the role of faith and the transformative power of prayer, love for Jesus, and his word. The conversation concludes with an inspiring discussion on rising above accusations, lies, and intimidation, walking in the power of resurrection, and transforming lives. This episode is a powerful testament to the hope that is in us, inspiring listeners to defend their faith and keep a good conscience.

About the host: 

Tammie Southerland is the host of Burning Messengers and the author of Permission To Bur: Breaking the Chains of Compromise from a Holy Generation. She is also a speaker and prophetic minister. She releases the sound authentic of revival and messages from heaven as she travels. Her lifestyle is one of prayer and digging deep into the Word of God, her desire is to releasing the Heart of The Father in these last days. She moves in power ministry and is known for releasing the Matthew 3:11“baptism of Holy Fire” as she goes. ⁠

Buy Tammie’s Book “Permission to Burn: Breaking the Chains of Compromise from a Holy Generation” here⁠: ⁠


0:00:00 – Tammie Southerland
You see, Jesus is called the faithful witness. That’s who he is. In Revelation 1 1. Do you know why he’s the faithful witness? Because he gave us life. You see, the true and faithful witness Will hold to that testimony until they become the testimony. And you see, this is something that we don’t, really we don’t look at this. But in Revelation 5, see, jesus is the faithful witness. He’s faithful and true, right he. He took the testimony all the way to his death. So I want you to know just a little bit the way that I flow and you guys back there, they’ll they have some notes, but hang with me because I really listened to what he said and I followed his lead.

Whenever I minister and have something prepared, but even as we’re worshiping, like I’m listening and I’m saying what are you saying, what are you doing? And it’s always like there’s people online, there’s people in the room, the word always begin to show me like, what do you want to say to the specific people? And I Love that. Over the past few, what month Jeff’s been, you know, preaching and teaching on the end of the age, and that’s a message that we don’t hear a lot. And here’s the crazy, amazing thing this is the message that God has actually burnt into my DNA long before you know, people started talking about it. I took a lot of flat for preaching on the message that would prepare people to stand firm and the day that Jesus would return. And and Over the years, like I, sometimes I got kind of hidden in the cave and I’m like, okay, I must stop preaching that so loud. And then sometimes I’m just like I’m gonna hit it hard. And, and recently I have noticed that more and more pastors and leaders and speakers are Stepping up to the plate and they’re not just saying, hey, jesus is coming, they’re actually teaching the scriptures to prepare an entire generation For the return of the Lord in such a way that people’s hearts are actually coming alive and they’re grabbing a hold of this word.

And for somebody like me that’s been they’ve been saying Jesus is coming, jesus is coming. You know, for close to 20 years I mean honestly, since I was a little kid, I was just been intrigued by the end of the age, by, intrigued by the book of Revelation and Daniel and Ezekiel. You know, I’m like talking about like six, seven, eight years old. Okay, and I’m seeing now like Lord, you really are bringing something into alignment, because people are actually their ears are open. I don’t know if you guys realize that people’s ears haven’t been open. People’s ears have really largely been shut. They’ve they’ve a largely been like the, the, you know the naysayers that would say, you know, like in the days of no, it’s never rained before. And people are certainly like, wait a minute, maybe it’s gonna rain, and so that’s very, very exciting for me. I’m gonna pray and then we’re gonna talk about.

We’re gonna talk about how do we respond? How do we respond to all of this? This teaching of Jesus is coming. Who are we in the scope of that thing like? Do we have a message, do we have a part to play? And and how do we do that? How do we walk it out?

So, father, I just thank you for the opportunity to be able to be your mouthpiece, to be your messenger tonight. God, I’m asking you that you would mark us as a body, as a spiritual family, that you would make us messengers. Lord, I’m asking you tonight that you would open my mouth and that you would speak and then I would just get out of the way, because you truly are worthy. You truly are worthy of Of the truth, going forth with power. You truly are worthy of an entire generation of people who would be marked with fire and Prepared to be messengers at the end of the age. Jesus, you’re worthy of the demonstration of the gospel. Jesus, you’re worthy of deliverance. You’re worthy of healing. You’re worthy of us understanding. Jesus, speak, speak and open our hearts Tonight, in this room and on the live stream, wherever we are, in Jesus name. So I titled this message the call of an apostolic witness, and I’m gonna explain that in just a minute.

We’ve talked about five-fold ministry, right, and we have talked about the, the Lord’s return, and in, what the events look like as they unfold at the end of the age, and a lot of people are just like you know, okay, that was a lot to swallow, right. But how does that play out for us personally? How does what does that look like whenever we’re looking at the, at winder, and we’re looking at Drug addiction, we’re looking at abuse, we’re looking at a spirit of poverty, you know? And what does that look like in our, in our, in our state? What is it like in our nation? And what does it look like in the nations of the earth?

Well, god is raising up apostolic witnesses At the end of the age. And so what that? What? Let’s, let’s just take that very simply. What that means is just there’s different ways to talk about the five-fold ministry and to talk about the apostle, the gift of the apostle. But this word, up the apostolic, this word actually means Someone sent or commissioned, that is, a sent one, and it’s it’s a word that kind of encompasses being a messenger, it encompasses being on a mission, and Then the word witness, translated in the Greek, actually translates as the word martyr. Did you know that?

And so we’re taking these two words, apostolic witness, and we’re putting them in the light of the end of the age. And when, then, we’re looking at everything that’s going on around us, right, the, we’re looking at what is truly the birth pains of the entire earth. That earth is groaning. Did you know that? It says that in the book of Romans, chapter 8, that all of creation groans. And so there’s this, this imagery of a woman in labor, and it’s saying that creation itself is like a woman in labor. It’s panting and crying out and groaning, and we’re gonna look at this more closely for the sons of God. Well, here’s the second part of that the sons and daughters of God, we’re actually groaning.

We have an inward witness. Do we know who? The inward witness is? The Holy Spirit. So the inward witness of the Holy Spirit within us is causing us to groan, us to pant us, to cry out for the son of God. And so you have, almost like, the symphony that’s taking place at the end of the age has been taking place of actually all throughout creation, ever since Adam and Eve made the decision to take of the fruit of the tree and they fell, creation started groaning, man started groaning, it started longing for justice, it started longing to be set free from its captivity.

And so, in the scope of things, this is what we’re dealing with, and as it gets closer and closer, I know that whenever I went into labor, specifically with one of my kids, I was like I had been back and forth to the birth center. We had all these false alarms. And whenever I was in labor with my youngest one, I was like I will not go back, I will not tell Damon, we’re not going to say anything until I know that. I know that, I know that I’m going to have this baby, because I don’t want to look like a fool again and see. The truth is, that’s kind of the place we are in as believers, as the body of Christ Like there’s this end time groaning.

The contractions are getting close together, but there’s been a lot of messengers that have gone forth and said he’s coming, and so there’s trepidation, there’s concern, there’s fear that, like, are we going to miss it? Is it okay to really be preaching this right now? Well, whenever I went into labor with Adley, I was literally laying on the couch and I was looking, I was timing the contractions. I told Damon to go to bed and the contractions were. They weren’t exactly like the two minute mark. You know, you know the textbook pregnancy is going to be like every two minutes, right, and then every minute. Well, that’s not what was happening. But they were getting more intense and it was so intense and so painful that I was actually on the floor and the Spirit of the Lord I had a timer set up on my computer where I was timing the contractions the Spirit of the Lord spoke to me and he said don’t look at the time, look at the intensity. And when the Lord said that to me, I was like oh. And then I was like okay, I think I should go, wake Damon up now.

And the long story short. We had to drive 45 minutes to the birth center and by the time we got there, 30 minutes later, I had a baby in my arms. We, if the Lord wouldn’t have spoken that to me, I probably would have had a baby in the house or in the car, and the way Damon was driving I was afraid I was going to have a baby in the car. But that’s where we are. These birth pains are getting stronger and the witnesses, the messengers, are getting sent, and so there’s this groaning on the inside of us, this bearing witness with what all of creation’s saying, and it’s time for us to come out of the cave. It’s time for us to go, come out of hiding and begin to understand that things are getting more intense, and we don’t know the day or the hour and we don’t know the timing, but we’ve got to listen to the intensity, we’ve got to pay attention because we’re being set to watch. So first I just really like I just quoted this scripture.

But Romans 826 talks about the groan. It talks about the wordless prayers with a Holy Spirit praised through us. Groanings that can’t be uttered, right Words that can’t be uttered. So I want to look at that first, and then we’re going to jump into some of the stuff on the notes. I promise I’m going to get to the notes guys a little bit. I won’t promise I get all of them.

And so I’ve been stuck in Romans 8. Oh my gosh, for like years, okay, you can’t, you can’t eat the word slow enough sometimes. I want to say that you don’t have to like, you don’t have to consume the word at record rate. You can chew on it, you can, you can ask him for revelation on it. And so he’s been unfolding this Romans 8 to me, this groan to me, probably for four to five years.

I was struck with this, this groan, this awakening, when I was in Israel several years ago and I said, lord, I want to understand what is that, what is this unspoken, what is this wordlessness? And so this is the first part of it. It’s the first part of becoming a witness. It’s the, it’s the witness of his spirit inside of you that says yes. It’s the groaning, it’s the longing inside of you that causes your heart to line up with the spirit. And where it says in Revelation 22, 17, the spirit and the bride say come. So there’s this divine alignment that starts taking place.

So if you look specifically at Romans 8 26, it says in the same way the spirit also helps our weakness, for we do not know how to pray as we should, but he himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. It says he who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the spirit is, and he intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. So if you were to look even further back in Romans 8, it talks about, in verse 11, that the spirit of him who raised Jesus for the dead, the whales and you. And so if you study out Romans 8, you know that this particular part of scripture is telling you your identity of sons and daughters, and it’s also telling you that you have the witness of the spirit on the inside of you. And so when we’re born again that’s that is literally step a it’s the Holy Spirit that draws us. It’s the Holy Spirit that convicts us of sin and righteousness and judgment. It’s also the Holy Spirit that causes us to know and understand that we are sons of God. And then it’s also the Holy Spirit that prays in and through us when we don’t know what to pray as we should.

So what does this have to do with the end of the age? Has everything to do with it, because the beginning step a is learning how to get in sync with him. It’s learning how to say what he says, pray what he prays, fall in love with him. Listen, it says in Revelation I think it’s chapter two, where it’s talking about the church at Laodicea is at two or three, three that they’ve done all these things well, but he has this one thing against them that they’ve left their first love. And here’s the thing, the first love longing comes from being fully yielded into him all the days of our life. It’s step a in identity, it’s step a in hunger, is step a in the Christian walk is leaning into his witness.

And the word witness, I’ve told you, in the Greek means martyr, but it’s also a term that is a courtroom term to a judicial term. So a witness sits on the witness stand and identifies that they have both seen and heard a particular event and they’re they’re agreeing or disagreeing with the accused right. And so the beginning part of being a witness is the Holy Spirit in you is saying yes, you’re a son, yes, you’re a daughter, yes, he died, yes, he was raised up, yes, he’s coming again. That’s the beginning, and so if we don’t understand that part, then we won’t understand the rest of it, because it starts there. It even says in church of Latter, see, they lose their lampstand if they don’t return to the first love. And so we’ve got to step a, understand that we can do all the things, but if we’re not abiding in him, if we’re not gazing on him, if we’re not lovesick for him, then we’re literally going to be. Listen, that’s a scary thing, but are literally the light, the lamp, the fire of God will be taken away because we’ve neglected the very point, the very reason in which we were saved.

I posted this to them on Facebook today. It started in a garden and it’s going to return in a garden. Right, if I had time to tell you the whole garden encounter, the garden of Gethsemane in Israel. He’s very interested in the garden, he’s very interested in that encounter. He’s very interested in intimacy with you, since started with a tree and it ended with a tree. It’s all about love, and so I’ve been very, very intrigued by this word witness and how it means martyr.

And so how do we find ourselves at the place? How do people find themselves at the place that they’re willing to lay down their lives? Because I really don’t think that people go out into the mission field and that, or they live in nations where they’re being persecuted, that they’re laying down their lives as martyrs because it was just a good idea. I really don’t think they got zealous enough about their religion to where they were willing to lay down their lives. It says that they were led in the beginning of the new church, the early church, and we will be too. They were led as sheep to the slaughter. Sheep, humble, lowly. How do we get to that place?

So Joan of Arc is one that has really kind of like God’s kind of brought her to the forefront for me. I don’t read you this quote. She said it’s better to be alone with God. His friendship will not fail me, nor his counsel, nor his love, and in his strength I will dare and dare and dare until I die. I want to read. Can I read that again? It is better to be alone with God. Listen, it is better to be alone with God, for his friendship will not fail me, nor his counsel, nor his love, and in his strength I will dare and dare and dare until I die.

She was 19 years old when she was burned at the stake. She was tried as a witch. Do you know that? The reason that they burned her at the stake is really because she said that she saw visions and heard the voice of God, among all the other things that this young girl did. Her true witness is that I’ve seen him and I’ve heard him and I know him, and you can’t take that away from me.

You see, it’s the love-sick reality, I guarantee you. There was the inward witness of the groan of the spirit on the inside of this young girl that said there’s nothing, nothing in this earth that you can take away from me, that even can compare to being with him in the glory, to looking at him, gazing on him. It’s that kind of passion, that kind of love. It’s seeing beyond the earthen realm. It’s knowing that we’re sojourners in this earth. It’s knowing that this is not our home. It’s seeing so far above that, knowing that Ephesians 2, 6 is true. We’re seated with him in heavenly places, fully understanding that we are sons and that we’re daughters and we’re on a mission in this earth, that we were born for such a time as this and that his presence comes near and he will not leave us and he will not forsake us, no matter what happens in the earth or the nation that we live in. It’s that kind of hunger, it’s that kind of understanding that would cause someone to truly be a witness unto the death.

So too often people start well but they don’t finish well. You ever thought about that? We’re a generation of good starters. I confess I try to spin all the plates, I try to do all the things and I’ve found that that condemnation will come on me whenever I realize, like I’ve dropped this ball and I’ve dropped that ball and we do really, really good, especially in the generation of social media. We do so good at saying I’m doing this and I’m doing that and I’ve got this vision, and we start well, but very few finish well. And listen, I’m gonna say this to you prophetically right now, this generation is in more danger of not finishing well, probably than any other generation that has walked across this earth. We’re in heavy, heavy danger, and I’m not just talking about the kids sitting over there, wherever they are, the teenagers. I’m talking about our generation, the people on this earth. We’re so in danger of not finishing well.

But at the same time, the grace of God, the witness of the spirit, the outpouring of his spirit, the drawing right now is at an unprecedented level. So it says in 2 Corinthians 4, 17 to 18, for our light and momentary afflictions is producing for us an eternal glory that is far beyond comparison. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen but what is unseen, for what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. This has to become real to us. Where are your eyes fixed? What are you gazing on? What are you a witness to? Have we become witnesses? Have we stayed at level one of the Holy Spirit? You’re a good son, you’re a good daughter. That’s a good message. He’s a good father, but that is the milk. That is level one. What are you witnessing? What are you gazing on? What are you thirsting for? Because it says that if we fix our eyes on what is unseen, that what we see and what we endure really doesn’t have a bearing on us.

So John the Baptist probably is one of my favorite characters beside John the Beloved. To be honest with you, john the Baptist prepared the way of the Lord right. We know his story. We’re very familiar with him People. We said we’re the John the Baptist generation, but the truth of the matter is that God is calling us to be a generation of people who prepare the way.

And so John the Baptist actually was in the lineage of the priesthood. He could have worn the fine clothing, he could have served in the temple, but he was set apart, he was consecrated and so he actually became a Nazarite. He was one of the Essians. He lived out in the wilderness I’ve been there in Israel. Like it was hot, it was gross. He wore camel skins and Jesus refers to John as the greatest man born of women.

And so, just before John was beheaded, he trembled and he called for Jesus and he wanted to know like are you really the one? He found himself in a moment where you know he prepared the way. He was filled with the spirit from the womb. He found himself in a place in prison, when he was about to lose his head, where he was calling for Jesus and saying can you please tell me one more time, can you confirm to me one more time? John was a true witness. He’d seen, he’d heard, he had the feeling of the spirit, he had all of these things, but when the pressure came on. He wanted to know one more time. I want to know are you worth it? Is this true? Because if it is, I’ll lose my head. And Jesus responded. I love how Jesus responded, because everything on the inside of John cried out he’s coming, he’s here and I’m preparing the way. And that’s the true witness. That is the apostolic messenger. The apostolic messenger will go out of the comfort of their home, out of the comfort of the church, out of the comfort of you know, whatever you know you may think you have due to you and throw all that to the side to preach one message he’s coming. But I love how Jesus speaks of John the Baptist. It says in Matthew 11, 7 to 10,.

As John’s disciples were leaving, jesus began to speak to the crowd. I love this because he did confirm to John who he was. But then he turns to the crowd. This is the man that’s questioning, right? He says what did you go out to the wilderness to see? A reed swayed by the wind? If not, what did you go to see? A man dressed in fine clothes? No, those who wear fine clothes are in the king’s palaces. What did you go to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you more than a prophet. This is the one of whom I’m written. I will send my messenger ahead of you and he who will prepare your way before you.

Jesus confirms John and, in the same moment he’s confirming himself, he calls this man who is shaken, who has laid down everything, who’s about to lose his head, the greatest man born of woman. Because there was an intimacy between the two of them, there was a witness between the two of them. And then he turns, he confirms to John the signs and wonders and miracles that he’s seen. He confirms his witness and then he turns to the people and he was saying who did you think he was? You see, god’s gonna raise us up as messengers. He’s gonna raise us up as witnesses at the end of the age, and we’re not gonna look like they thought we’re gonna look. We’re not gonna sound like they thought we’re gonna sound. Listen, it’s not gonna come in the package that we thought it was gonna come in and listen, it’s gonna be signs and wonders and miracles. And it’s gonna be suffering and it’s gonna be pain and it’s not gonna be pretty, but at the same time it’s gonna be glorious. And people are gonna look and they’re gonna say is he really coming? Is he really who you said he is?

If you’re laying down your life, and Jesus will come and he will confirm to us who he is, what we’ve seen and what we heard, and in the same breath he will confirm who he is. You see, he doesn’t leave us orphans. He’s not changed. He’s the same yesterday, today and forever. I love how you even drew the parallels between how he was the same in the wilderness whenever he removed the Israelites from those bags, basically their plagues, their bowls of wrath. In the same way he will do for us. You see, we have to love, not our lives, even if it cost us our lives. And it’s only by the witness of the spirit that we find ourself in that place.

And so I’m skipping over some stuff, guys, because I wanna get to the power of this witness. You see, jesus is called the faithful witness. That’s who he is in Revelation 1-1. Do you know why he’s the faithful witness? Because he gave his life. You see, the true and faithful witnesses will hold to that testimony until they become the testimony.

And you see, this is something that we don’t really, we don’t look at this, but in Revelation 5, see, jesus is the faithful witness. He’s faithful and true. Right. He took the testimony all the way to his death. He could not sway him, satan could not offer him enough. He could not be changed. He stood firm and stood steadfast and he’s faithful and true. And then we see him in Revelation 5 as the embodiment of the message. When we see the lamb, the slain lamb with the seven horns and the seven eyes, who’s the only one worthy to open the scrolls. You see, when we become, when we begin to walk out what we’ve seen and what we’ve heard, we actually begin to be transformed by the message that we actually become, come to a place where we find ourselves being the message, because you can’t undo what you’ve seen and what you’ve heard. So it’s a definite change there.

So Jesus said in Acts 1, 7 to 9, for you do not know the times of the seasons that the Father has fixed upon his own authority, but you will receive my power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you and you will be my witnesses, and Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria to the ends of the earth. And after this, they watched and he was taken up and a cloud hid them from her sight. We think about and I think I’m kind of pushing this point, but a lot of times we think about witnessing or we’re going to knock on doors, right, we share the I mean everybody remember the Four Spiritual Laws, that’s what I cut my teeth on. I was Methodist, baptist, pentecostal-ish, all of the things right. But we think that’s witnessing. But you can’t truly witness unless you’ve been endowed by the Spirit and you’ve seen and heard and see Jesus actually pours out his Spirit upon them and then he sends them into their region, into their basically in our terms, into their region, into their state and into their nation and to the ends of the earth To bear witness to what they’ve seen and heard.

How many of you know that the witnesses, or the disciples, all but John, became martyrs? They all laid down their life for what they had seen and heard. And so the witness becomes. You transition from the inward witness to the historical. You could tell the story. You have history with God. You’ve identified with. You know you’ve had some time that you’ve walked with him, you’ve seen him do some things. And then that final stage is that ethical, true witness that we see Jesus walking in. It says that Jesus was this fateful witness because he went all the way to his death.

Revelation 12, 11 says that those at the end of the age will love, not their lives, even unto death. We don’t will ourselves here. I think that’s what I’m driving home with us. We can’t will it. We can’t be good enough believers, we can’t study the scriptures enough, we can’t quote enough scripture, we can’t be bold enough. We don’t get ourselves to being in that place where we lay down our lives, where we become the message because we did good enough. We find ourselves in that place because we’ve actually found ourselves completely molded into him. We’ve leaned ourselves completely into him. We found our identity in him.

And here’s something I want you to hear, this the key difference between Peter and I love Peter. I’ve been about a lot with Peter, I’ve wanted to slice the ears right and John which, john the beloved. I’m not talking about John the Baptist, john the beloved, he was the son of thunder, he wanted to call down fire. But the key difference between these two is how they spoke of themselves before Jesus. See, peter had all the zeal. He says I’ll die for you, I’m going to fight for you, I’m going to do you know, this is who he said, he who he was. I’m the guy with the zeal, jesus. I love you. Jesus, I’m the burning one.

When John the beloved said I’m the disciple who Jesus loves, he identified himself about how Jesus felt about him instead of how he felt about Jesus. And I’ve walked through this personally in my life. It’s been like I will do the thing, I will die. I’ve got the grit, I’ve got the grind. Send me to the mission field. You know, he said to me. I said, lord, send me to the mission field. I want to die on the mission field, I want to die as a martyr. I will go do the thing. You know what he said to me get married, have kids, die there. Probably not completely dead yet, but that’s, that’s who he’s called us to be. He’s called us to transition from the place where we identify ourselves with all that we are and that’s okay.

That’s the maturity process. So we would begin to say, listen, I don’t have anything to offer. I have begun to understand fully the older that I’ve gotten, the more passionate that I’ve gotten, the less that I don’t know anything. I am actually very immature. I really need help. Jesus, I am your beloved. Jesus, I’m your beloved Because, if I can shrink back to the place where I know that I’m the beloved. And listen, that sounds arrogant, doesn’t it? But it’s actually the most humble place to be. It’s more arrogant to say I can do all the things.

And what did Peter do before the rooster crow? Right? He denied him three times. Where was John? Where was John the beloved and the women? By the way, john the beloved and the women were at the feet of the cross. He was the only one of the 12 that found himself at the foot of the cross, the one whom Jesus loved.

Peter was restored, but I believe that there’s something key there that carries us from being zealous and passionate. And listen, I will be zealous and passionate the rest of my life, and that may kill me one day, and that’s okay. But before I’m that zealous and that passionate, I want to know who I am and him, and I want to know how desperately in love with me he is. When I fail, when my faith fails me, when my strength fails me, I draw on his faith. I draw on his strength. Listen, even before I got up here, god, I’m praying. Lord, give me your faith, strengthen my faith, strengthen my faith, strengthen my faith. Jesus, you’re worthy of burning souls. Jesus, you’re worthy of messengers going forth into the earth. Jesus, you’re worthy of healing. I’m not. I’m not worthy, but because of him I’m beloved.

Does it ever boggle your mind why our Savior would lay his life down as a bridegroom and literally hand the kingdom to a bunch of broken messed up? Don’t nobody even know who he is, people we don’t even know him. And he was like here, go take the world. And we’re like a bunch of two-year-olds, we don’t have a clue, but he does it anyway. So Romans 8 has been so powerful to me because it talks about the revealing of the sons of God. It talks about the revealing of the sons of man, son of man. So it’s again that syncing together the spirit and the bride they call. And so the apostolic witness grows and matures throughout a journey with him.

As we receive more messages and more understanding. We see more of the birth pangs, we see more of the reality of his coming. We begin to get emboldened to preach the message. We actually get that face-like flint and at the same time we’re beautifully compassionate and he’s able to move through us as we grow and we mature in him. He actually makes us the message. We become the messengers because we’ve learned how to abide in him, we’ve learned how to gaze on him, we learn how to take the word of God and we read it and we pray it like it’s our lifeline, like it’s sustenance, like it really is our daily bread, instead of checking our religious box.

When we begin to mature into that place, we’re actually answering the groan of all creation. And listen, the fullness of that will come whenever he returns. But the groan of all creation is that you and I would wake up and understand who we are, because the calling of an apostolic witness, in the truest sense of the word, is to grow up in him and to go out into the earth and to manifest the presence and the beauty and the wholeness and the message of God, not because of who we are, but because of who he is. Did you know that we can actually find ourselves in a place and listen, it’s abiding in prayer, it’s chewing on the word, it’s finding ourselves lovesick. We find ourselves in that place where we go so low that he fully overtakes us and listen. I believe this. It says go into all the world and heal the sick and raise the dead and cleanse the lepers. He says freely, you’ve received. Freely give. I believe fully that this is not an if, and it’s not for some people. It’s literally for all of us to find ourselves in the place where we’re so in love with him that all we want to do is be with him, that when we walk out into the highways and the byways, they are literally compelled to come in. Listen.

I texted my niece today and I was like listen to. The Lord is talking to me about her. And I texted her and I was like you aren’t supposed to be Jesus to anybody, you’re supposed to be his friend so you can manifest him. You can’t change people, but he can. It’s not your job to be Jesus, it’s your job to be in him and he and you and you’ll bear much fruit, but without him you’ll do nothing. How do we become a warrior? How do we lay down our lives? We find ourselves lovesick.

We go back. Listen. Faith that works is dead. Do the works. But we go back full circle. Remember when you first fell in love, remember when you got born. Again I do. I was so unbelievably grateful that he would wash my slate clean and then, daily, I try to remind myself I was so, so messed up. I’m so not worthy to be standing on this platform. And then I remember See, we got to go back that remembrance.

And when the power of God I heard Bill Johnson say this when the power of God moves and the sick are healed, the dead are raised, or somebody gets saved or somebody’s encouraged and they say I’m so thankful for you, you can receive that gratitude. But then you go into your inner room and you get on your knees and you take the honor and you say this belongs to you because we’re not going after false humility. You just take it and you lift it right back up and you live in this posture and this lifestyle and you become a witness of him. You seek him, move. You have become one who’s seen and heard.

And then the ethical witness, the true witness. What is ethics, morality, right, ethics is like I’m going to stay in line with the thing that I’ve been told to do, taught to do an ethical witness. Actually, they have laid down their life. I’ve witnessed that Jesus laid down his life, so therefore I’m willing to do the same. That’s how someone finds themselves at that place. They don’t theologically understand that. I’d say Joan of Arc didn’t have a clue. If you really study this girl out. She just loves sick, she just believes she saw and she heard and she gonna do it because she was a teenager and that’s what he’s calling us to.

I’m gonna look at this. I’ve kind of flipping through my notes a little bit here and there. So so it at the end of the age and even now, whether or not it’s all the things are coming down. We’re gonna face opposition. We’re gonna face people who are gonna be like you know, scoffers, you know say like this scoffers are gonna scoff. Right, we say haters are gonna hate, scoffers are gonna scoff, mockers are gonna mock. We’ve got to know how to stand in the face of that. So let’s look at second Peter 3, real quick, verse 3. Actually I don’t think I want to do verse 3. I think that’s what y’all have. Let’s look at second Peter 3, first 12.

For the eyes of the Lord are towards the righteous and his ears attend to their prayer, but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil. Who is there to harm you? If you prove zealous for what is good? Listen to this. This is your character. Your anointing will crush you. If you don’t have character, he’s putting as anointing on us. Who was there to harm you if you prove zealous for what is good? But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed and do not fear their intimidation and do not be troubled, but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts. Always be ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you.

Yet, with gentleness and reverence, I’m gonna stop right there. I’m totally just following the fear right now. This is key. With gentleness and reverence, not with a spirit of accusation, not with a spirit of chrism. When mocking comes, when, when accusations come, you’re characters going to come into question, you go low. You become emboldened by the spirit of God and you speak the truth Without fearing and trembling, but in your heart, you go low.

If you go back to what we were talking about with John the Baptist to begin with, he knew how to go low. He taught us to go low. He is the one that prepared the way of the Lord. As the generation comes forth right now to begin to prepare the way of the Lord, you will be emboldened by the power of the spirit. You’re gonna see signs and wonders and miracles, but you’re gonna come, accusations are gonna come against you. Listen, we love I do media ministry. We love the platform we love to be, to be able to reach masses of people at once. But most people are not prepared for what comes after you, after, whenever you go and you reach masses of people, it’s hard enough to reach five, because people are going to be offended, the spirit of accusations, satan will come and he will put Accusations in their mind against you. The very one you’re trying to reach will come against you.

And listen, we’re talking about persecution and laying down our lives. This is how it happens. This is the, how it says at the end of the age that brother will betray above brother, even under death. And so if we don’t know how to go low, if we don’t know how to ride, listen, it’s gonna sound like it doesn’t make sense. We’ve got to go low.

In our heart does humility? But rise above the warfare and sit with him in heavenly places. We gaze on him. We say what are you saying? What are you doing? Jesus, help me to bleed love. Jesus, helped me to be like you, walk like you, be humble. Jesus was the humblest, kindest man. You see the power of the living God that flows through a faithful witness, an Apostolic messenger at the end of the age, is the one who was willing to go low and not come into agreement with any Thing that is like Satan.

Listen, listen, jesus said that Satan had nothing in him. There was nothing like Satan in Jesus. Therefore, jesus was able to conquer death, hell in the grave, and we are called to go low and come out of agreement with anything that looks like Satan. The spirit of accusation will point the finger at you From the head listen, then the someone’s head that will come up with complete, total bunk, right, craziness, and you are going to want to go low and you are going to want to defend yourself. But God is calling you to rise above that and Sit with him in heavenly places, get his heart, get his desires, get his word.

I have practiced doing this on a daily basis in seasons. Literally. I can hear in this some of what God has given me as a spiritual give, that I can hear accusations and I will go before the Lord and I will say, Lord, I come out of agreement of every whisper, every lie, every Accusation that’s come against me and anything in my heart where I am agreeing with accusations to get someone else Listen. It’s not just an action that you do, it is the power of God that it will be released upon you to be able, as you bless those who curse you, to be able to transform lives. I Don’t have time to go into it, but when my daughter, my art, my daughter, almost passed away this time last year, she’s covering her face. She hates when I tell the story. She’s okay.

God was teaching me this process. Rise above it. Rise above it. Rise above it like on a daily basis. Rise above it. Rise above it. Rise above the accusation, rise above the lies. Come and sit with me. Do what I’m doing, say what I’m saying.

I was teaching on it online. I was teaching on the spirit of Leviathan, and Jaden ended up in the hospital. Long and short of it is God like, gave her a new heart, new kidneys, new lungs. She is an absolute miracle. But I had begun to learn how to sit above the chaos before we ever walked into that hospital room. And Then, whenever I was at a conference I don’t know, several months ago, a Person that you guys would probably know, but he comes up to me and he says you know that the key reason, and I don’t want to formulate miracles, but he said one of the key reasons that you’re seeing the miracles in your life and in your family is because you’ve learned how to rise above accusation, accusation, okay.

This is why this is so important. If Jesus is a faithful witness, even under death, and he dies for those who are accusing him, how much more so do we take up that cross and Deny ourselves so that we can walk in the power of the resurrection? But go back to verse 14. But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed and do not fear their intimidation and do not be troubled, but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts and be ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you. Yet, with gentleness and reverence, and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you were slandered, those who revile you, your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame. You don’t have time to go through all of it.

Ready to arm yourself with divine intelligence and spiritual strength in the face of tumultuous times? Imagine tapping into the prophetic access to intimacy with the Father and hearing His voice even when everything around you is in crisis. That’s what we’re exploring in this enlightening episode. We recall a word and vision I received in 2018 about the burning olive branch – an emblematic warning of impending challenges, but also a blueprint for surviving and thriving in times of upheaval.

Today’s episode was originally a part of Lana Vawser’s Whole Woman Series. You can visit to learn more about her ministry and courses. You can also subscribe to her new Zion’s Company Of Women Podcast.

Ever wondered about the superpower of repositioning your heart? It’s a power rooted in intimacy and knowledge of God, one that empowers women to laugh without fear of the future. We take a deep look at Proverbs 31, Psalm 2, and the story of Elijah, drawing parallels and lessons that underline the essence of trust in God. Along the journey, we illuminate the importance of being spiritually strong, whole, and prepared for the Lord’s arrival, with Proverbs 31 as our guiding light.

As we wrap up, we contemplate the art of interpreting the signs of the times and the pivotal role of prayer. Drawing from scriptures like Matthew 16:3, Isaiah 16:19, and Hebrews 11, we aim to equip you on how to remain spiritually whole and strong in anticipation of the Lord’s coming. We also delve into the crucial matter of remaining watchful for the Lord’s movements, and interpreting them through intimacy and knowledge of God. So join us, absorb, and let’s navigate this enlightening episode together.

Where to dive in:

(0:00:01) – Hearing and Responding to God’s Voice

Hearing the Lord’s voice is essential for survival and thriving in crisis, with a strategy of the burning, yet not consumed, olive branch dripping oil.

(0:15:10) – The Superpower of Repositioning Your Heart

Women use God-given superpower to quench violence and trust Him, as seen in Proverbs 31, Psalm 2, and First Kings 19.

(0:30:33) – Preparing for the Lord’s Arrival

We must prepare spiritually and be strong women, looking to Proverbs 31 as an example, to experience joy, peace and safety in the Lord’s restoration of Shalom.

(0:39:18) – Ministry, Microphones, and Interpreting the Times

Interpreting signs, prayer, scripture examples, and Reese Howells’ example to be spiritually strong.

(0:55:53) – Burning Messengers

Prepare spiritually, interpret signs, and pray to watch the Lord’s movements.

About the host: 

Tammie Southerland is the host of Burning Messengers and the author of Permission To Bur: Breaking the Chains of Compromise from a Holy Generation. She is also a speaker and prophetic minister. She releases the sound authentic of revival and messages from heaven as she travels. Her lifestyle is one of prayer and digging deep into the Word of God, her desire is to releasing the Heart of The Father in these last days. She moves in power ministry and is known for releasing the Matthew 3:11“baptism of Holy Fire” as she goes. ⁠

Buy Tammie’s Book “Permission to Burn: Breaking the Chains of Compromise from a Holy Generation” here⁠: ⁠

Full Transcript


0:00:01 – Tammie Southerland
your circumstances, do not surprise him. If you can just be still, you will hear him, and it’s like the song. You know, all of a sudden I’m overwhelmed and all these afflictions are eclipsed by his glory. That’s where you will be, in the realm of the unspoken, and you’re practicing in circumstances, because times are going to get more difficult and, yes, the famine. Touch not the oil and the wine. I believe there will be famine around the earth. But what did he say? Touch not the oil and the wine. Listen to me, you have a destiny. You have. He’s got a plan for you and your children. Oh, guys, I am so thankful to be here. I’m carrying something right now and I’m just.

This is actually the first time I’ve released this publicly. Had a lot of back room conversations with friends and family about what the Lord is doing right now, in this hour, but it’s been pressing into my heart the the utter importance of being able to hear him, not just in the secret place. But this is. I’m going to talk to you about the unspoken realm and the voice of the Lord, and some of it is because what is coming in the next three months and next three years globally, we’re not going to be able to trust what we see and hear with our physical eyes or with our ears, or what we’re scrolling and we’re seeing on social media. We’re going to have to be able to lean into the trust of the Lord in this realm. We, we, we over spiritualize the realm of the spirit and a lot of times we think only certain people are really allowed into that realm. But we were all created to abide in him, to gaze on him, to behold him and to hear him and have knowledge of what he’s doing, what he’s saying, what’s going on in the earth. And so part of what I’m going to share with you is actually going to really tap into your identity, and it’s not just to to encourage you in your identity, it’s to prepare you.

You must be prepared, especially as women. Women, we tend to be very intuitive. Naturally, we tend to have, you know, just an awareness of what is going on. But at the same time, there is more for us. We don’t have to lean into just our intuition. We actually have more than intuition, but a prophetic access to intimacy with the Father. That gives us divine intelligence. And we, when we think of Romans 826, we think of when the spirit is praying for us when we don’t know what to pray. We think about we pray. We’re praying in tongues right, most of us think that’s our spirit language. We’re praying in tongues, but there’s so much more to the groanings of the spirit or the unspoken language of the spirit than what we think.

So I’m going to dive into this. We’re going to talk a little bit about Elijah. We’re going to talk about how God drew himself, or the Father drew himself, close to Elijah in the time of crisis, and we’re also going to connect that to where we are now. And I also want you to be thinking about family. I want you to be thinking about your kids and your grandkids and those who in your realm of influence, who you’re praying for, and and really let the Lord kind of transition you from leaning in on a frustration or a fear based prayer life into an unveiled, strategic prayer life where he’s taking you into, like Psalm 139, 16. I’ve been posting on that a little bit where there is all of the days written in your book or in his book, before one ever came to be, where you get to go into the place where you can know what’s in the daily bread that day and pray in that way, without fear of the future. That’s going to be key, very, very key, without fear of the future. And so one thing we’re going to go. If you look at the notes, um, you know, I kind of titled it. He’s in the whisper. Now this is going to be a little bit of a play on words, because he actually is not whispering. He is speaking in another realm, so his voice is a breath that’s coming forth in the realm of the spirit. We’re going to see this with Elijah, but he wants to pull us out, where it’s just a whisper, into its eight revelation or an unveiling. And so this is how to hear and respond to the unspoken voice of the Lord in the hour of crisis. Now, some of you may have heard me tell this story before.

In 2018, the Lord first gave me like, spoke to me audibly this, this word the unspoken in 2018. I’m in my bed, 3am, and I hear, like, I’m like, like I’m struck by the Lord in his voice and he says one word unspoken. That’s all he says. And I jolt up out of my bed and in that moment, oh, the dog is in the room. I’m sorry.

In that moment, I am like caught up and I’m seeing this vision of an olive branch and it’s burning, it’s, it’s it’s almost like Moses is Bush that was burning but not consumed. But it was an olive branch and the the olives were burning and they were dripping oil. And I began to pray in the spirit, in a prophetic voice but touch not the oil in the wine, but touch not the oil in the wine. Now, if you’re familiar with scripture, that’s from Revelation, where he is actually prophesying of a famine that would come. But the order to the angel was but touch not the oil and the wine. And so we’ve got these two elements the unspoken. The Lord’s using this language. And then he’s showing me an olive branch that is burning but not consumed, dripping oil, and so he’s giving me clues as to what’s to come and actually the strategy not just of survival but of thriving in an hour of crisis.

Okay, and so this is important because, in the end, when you’re in him right, lana’s done another whole course on in him when you’re in him, you are actually enveloped or in folded into him, you become one with him, and so you’re hidden, like Psalm 91, you’re hidden in the secret place of the most high, where the arrow that flies by day doesn’t touch you, right, and so you’re in him, in this unspoken realm, and then what the earth is experiencing as crisis is actually the labor pains of Romans eight, where the whole earth is groaning and the longing for what, the unveiling or the manifestation of the sons of God. And then that leads into that Romans 826. But when you know not what to pray, the spirit himself prays for you or through you, wordless, unspoken groanings. Right, that’s the. Are you? Are you following me?

So you’re in, folded into Christ in the hour of the earth experiencing crisis, when it’s actually in labor pains, and he’s taking you into a place where you’re praying, and he’s praying through you in another realm. That perfect prayer, yes, but it’s also a whisper, a a, an infolding or a drawing you into a realm that’s not experiencing crisis, but it’s experiencing labor. Okay, so this is what. This isn’t just what we get to do. This is what we were redeemed for In the hour, that which we would live. There should be no fear, because perfect love drives out all fear. Fear has to do with torment, and so this is actually us being delivered from the flesh.

Glacians, chapter five, talks about the deeds of the flesh versus the fruit of the spirit. So we’re delivered from the deeds of the flesh, or the experience of the flesh, or the reactions of the flesh, to walk in the spirit, in the realm of what Elijah would call the steel small voice of the Lord. The whisper of the Lord is actually the Romans 826, grown of the spirit. We are seated with him to get divine intelligence of how to respond, not react, in the hour of crisis. Okay, that was a mouthful right. Okay, so that was just the introduction, and so we’re looking at this.

But this is just so important. I’m not really trying to necessarily wow you with revelation. I want to equip you because you have to be able to not just feel the excitement of this word. I know your spirit man’s coming, but it’s got to penetrate deeper, because what we’re walking into I’m not, you know, I’m sure globally, but also especially in the United States, with us approaching a time of elections what we’re about to walk into and I do believe it’s global is going to be a three month period of time where the Lord is charging us to be steel and begin to allow ourselves to retrain the way that we pick up on what is going on around us instead of picking up on what’s going around us, he’s inviting us up to a place, in a that ascended place, where we’re retraining our senses, our intuition, to not focus on what’s in front of us or what is seen, but on what is unseen, not to even hear what we hear, but to listen for the unspoken realm where things are unveiled, as the whole earth is laboring for the sons of God to be revealed at the end of the age. And so this is going to be important, so that we can pull his will on earth, as it is in heaven, in an hour of crisis. And so I believe there’s a three year period, there’s a three month period and there’s also a three year period.

The Lord specifically shared with me, with us, at least in the United States, that this coming election really does. It matters, don’t get me wrong, it matters, but it doesn’t matter in the sense of the direction that we’re going, because there’s been a global shift and we’ve talked about the new era, but there’s been a global shift where things have been set in motion and those things are in motion, and now is the time of shaking, where everything that can be shaken will be shaken, but that which the kingdom, by the way, is not able to be shaken, will begin to arise, but it’s going to require the people of the kingdom to function as though they are of the kingdom right, not looking at the wind, of the waves, but listening for the voice of the Lord. And so I’ve got here points to remember, just so you can go back. I want to hit these points, but I’m really just going to flow with the Holy Spirit as I teach this, and so if you look at these points, I’ll go over them with you.

Number one the whisper and the breath of God is in the realm of the unspoken. So if you want to attach Romans 826 to that, you can. That Romans 826 is not just a grown, it says wordless, and we don’t usually take that in. It says wordless groanings. He prays through us with wordless groanings, and so that indicates when you’re gripped by God and yet you have no words. He has language, and so the groan of the spirit is not without language in the realm of the spirit. It’s only without language in the realm of the flesh, or the realm of what is seen by our physical eyes, what is heard by our physical ears. But in the realm of the spirit. There is definitely language for what he is praying and he’s inviting us into those prayers, not just to mindlessly pray. That is the beginning.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. So that’s the beginning of the spiritual reality. But it’s not the end. It’s an invitation. So you’re going to begin to ask the Lord to give you divine intelligence or interpretation to what you’re praying in the wordless realm and you’re going to learn how to listen and hear him, even in the silence. And so, number two the voice of fear, intimidation and pressure to perform will deceive and project false information. Please hear me when I say that I’m going to read that again. The voice of fear, intimidation and pressure to perform will deceive us and project false information. So we’re going to be very, very careful in this season to not look at information, whether it’s factual or not, as the prophetic word of the Lord. If it is fear and intimidation and pressure to perform, you will not be able to trust it. It will not be the word of the Lord. You will find the only way you’re going to have peace in this season is to be seated in the realm of the Spirit, and that is where perfect peace is, by the way.

Number three discerning the times and the seasons and the days to come requires we ascend and we be seated with Christ. Now, here’s the thing about us being ascended. Most of us know this, we’ve taught it so much over the past few years. But Ephesians 2, 6 is not where you strive to sit, it’s where you are seated, and so there is an element of spiritual rest in this urgency. Right, it’s not a hastiness, it’s not the hastiness of the hour, it’s the urgency of the hour, and so this means we are seated with Him. We are seated with Him in heavenly realms. You don’t have to strive your way there by the blood of the Lamb and the word of your testimony. You have been redeemed, you have overcome, you are seated. You do not have to strive and clean up to get there, but there is an element of holiness, absolutely there’s an element of holiness and purity, but you are seated with Him in heavenly places.

Number four respond. Responding to hear. I don’t know what I wrote there Repositioning. I wrote repositioning, repositioning your heart to hear amid chaos is your superpower. Okay, women, let me explain this to you. You have a superpower. I love my husband and the men in my life, but we have a superpower to quickly reposition our hearts and hear from the Lord and respond without fear of the future.

Proverbs 31, verse number five is exactly what I’m talking about. This woman responds to the future events without fear, and so you have been given a superpower of, yes, intuition, but prophetic knowledge of God out of the place of intimacy where you know that, you know that you know you can trust Him because he’s your bridegroom, so you can quickly reposition your heart, because your heart longs for intimacy, in order to cast out all fear, that you can stand firm in an hour of chaos, because you know there is no chaos in your bridegroom. You know this because you know Him, and so the superpower is intimacy and the knowledge of God and how to respond. Please remember that. Yes, she laughs without fear of the future. I love it. I’m gonna hit on that in a minute because it parallels Psalm two. By the way, the Proverbs 31 woman parallels Psalm two where the Father has the Son ask of me and I’ll give you the nations as my Azure inheritance. And it says that when the nations rage, he laughs.

Did you know that the Proverbs 31 woman laughs at the rage of the nations? I’m telling you, if you only understood what you have in beholding Him and being seated with Him. And it’s so important in what’s coming because, listen, my pastor’s wife preached Sunday morning and she said, if women ruled the world, the only problem would be we would build up so much offense and we wouldn’t talk to each other. But if all men ruled the world, there would be no, nothing left because they would always pull out their sword and destroy one another. And that’s why we need each other. That’s why we need to run together. Men and women need to run together in this, because we have a superpower to be able to quench I should say we’re able to quench the violence of the passions of our husbands and the men in our life, because we have the ability to hear from Him in the place of intimacy. We can laugh without fear of the future. We get that aspect of Him.

Okay, so first Kings, chapter 19, 11 to 13. I’m gonna read this to you, but I want you to hear this very, very prophetically. Right now. There’s several elements that we’re gonna kind of swirl through in this. I want you to notice something we talk a lot about five fold ministry. We talk a lot about the new move, right, the new wine skin move. These are kind of like key phrases that are being thrown out right now.

Elijah is a prophet. He is a prophet, an Old Testament prophet, a prophet of prophets. Okay, and in this passage, elijah has just taken out the prophets of Baal. He had a showdown, he sat back, he was chill. Let them do their thing, let them cut themselves, let them have all their whatever to try to call down their gods, and their gods didn’t move. He’s even poking at them, making fun of them throughout this process. He comes, it’s his time to go. He pours water, he does every physical thing that would hinder fire from falling. And guess what? God moves. He pours out the fire. It consumes everything and God is made to be known as Yahweh, the God of all creation, the ruler of all, and the prophets of Baal are slaughtered. The next thing we know, elijah the prophet gets a letter from Jezebel threatening his life, and he is immediately in fear. Okay, this is a true prophet.

We talk about five fold ministry and the prophets and the apostles and all the things, but this dude knows, god hears, god has the boldness, he’s moving in it. He’s doing the thing. Okay, jezebel sends him a letter. He’s freaking out, he heads to the cave. He tells God to take his life. Like, almost like a spirit of suicide comes over him because he’s truly consumed, he truly believes he’s alone. There’s nobody else there with him. Like he’s done. Okay, he is done. He is in the hour of crisis and in his mind it is over. Okay, we’re going there right now.

So first, kings 19,. I’ve got 11 to 13 on here. I’m going to read up just a little bit further. I want you to see this point right here, where he says in 19, verse four but he himself went on a day’s journey into the wilderness. He came and he sat down under the juniper tree and he requested for himself that he might die and he said it’s enough. Now, lord, take my life, for I am not better than my father’s. And he laid down and he slept under the juniper tree and, behold, there was an angel touching him and said arise and eat. And then he looked and behold, there was at his head bread and baked on hot stones in a jar of water, and he ate and a drink. And the angel of the Lord came and he said a second time and touched him arise and eat, because the journey is too great for you. Okay, okay.

So he’s in this place. He has eight knees, drank and there’s been 40 days and 40 nights. He’s in the mountain of God and now, in verse nine, he came to a cave and he lodged there. And then the Lord said to him what are you doing here, elijah? And he said I’ve been very, very zealous. And see, here he goes again. He’s discouraged again. Okay. And he says I have been very zealous, for the Lord, the God of host, and the sons of Israel have forsaken your covenant and tore down your alters and killed your prophets with the store, the sword, and I, along, am left, and they seek my life to take it away. And he said go forth and stand on the mountain of the Lord and behold, the Lord was passing by.

Now, listen, this is important. I want you to think about where we are right now as a nation, all of the things that are taking place, I should say as a globe right. All the things are taking place, the fears that are coming out. We’re hearing rumors of wars. We’re hearing about famine that’s possibly coming. We’re looking at all of these things that are swirling. They are the signs of the times. I’m going to talk about that in a minute.

We’re hearing the prophets prophesy. We’re hearing people that are building like we’ve got to build the five fold. We’ve got to get the five fold in place. We’re hearing people say there’s a mass exodus of the church coming. Everybody’s leaving the church. And then we’re hearing the church say everybody that’s leaving the church is in rebellion and like we’ve got all these things going on around, and some people are feeling like Elijah in this moment, and they’re feeling like what was me? Everything’s over, nobody’s listening, everything’s in chaos. Listen, I feel the groan of my own spirit. You know, the child sex trafficking, all of these things are shaking and all of these things are manifesting in our earth right now, and we want to look at all of these things in massive discouragement and fear will wash over us. And so this is what God’s doing. He’s taking Elijah in this moment. He’s fed him, he’s nourished him, he’s brought angels to him, yet still Elijah can’t really perceive the Lord.

Now, first of all, I want you to see how the father draws near in Elijah’s crisis. The father did not leave him abandoned, he did not throw him out. He didn’t say oh well, you’re, you’re no good to be my prophet anymore. The father draws near, he nourishes him, he cares for him, he feeds him. So his physical needs are important. But watch this.

And so it says verse 11, go forth and stand on the mountain before God, before the Lord. And behold, the Lord was passing by and a great and strong wind was rending the mountains and breaking them into pieces in the rocks. Before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind. And after the wind and earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake. And after the earthquake of fire, but the Lord was not in the fire. And after the fire, a gentle blowing. And when Elijah heard it, he wrapped his face in his mantle and went out and stood in the entrance of the cave and behold, a voice came. Listen to this, he wraps his face in his mantle. There’s been storms, there’s been earthquakes, there’s been fire. He did not tremble, he did not shake until the voice came. He wraps his face. Do you remember Moses? He veils his face because of the glory. He wraps his face in his mantle because he heard a voice. Okay, listen to the voice. And a voice came to him and said what are you doing here, elijah and he said I have been very zealous for the Lord. I have hosed the sons of Israel, forsaken your covenant, torn down your altars, they killed your prophets and with the sword, I alone am left and they seek to take it away. And the Lord said to him Go and return to the wilderness, to Damascus, where you’ve arrived. And he sends him back. So I’m going to pause right there.

Most of the time we take this force of Scripture and we say he wasn’t in all the things, but he was in the still small voice. He was just in the still small voice. I want you to hear me say this. That was not a teeny, tiny voice. There was a lot of ruckus and a lot of commotion and a lot of things, and Elijah was not moved in the midst of those things. But God made it clear to him I’m not in the elements. I’m not what in you see. I’m not in what you hear. I’m not what in they, what they say. I’m not in what Jezebel says. I’m not what in what you think. I am in a realm. Elijah, come up here where you can get clarity.

And Elijah, when he hears the voice, that word voice is translated as the very breath of God.

It is a breath. It was a sound. It was a sound in the realm that Elijah had to abide in to be able to face what he was stepping into, and he had to remember the mantle that he had been mantled with. And that mantle didn’t just sit on his shoulders, he needed that mantle to wrap his entire head. It was very similar, I believe, in the parallel to the helmet of salvation Cover your head, listen. It’s even like the. I think about the seraphim Cover your head, cover your faces. It’s him. He is here and his voice literally breaks the cedars. This is a voice that is teeny, tiny and it’s not whispering, and it’s not just momentary, and it’s not this thing. When the Lord came to me in 2018 and he rattled me out of my bed and he said the word unspoken, it was not a whisper. It was so strong because it came from the inside of me out and maybe sit up straight. You see the unspoken voice. The realm of the unspoken is where we have to abide in the days to come. If not, we will be exactly where Elijah is feeling alone, feeling persecuted, feeling abandoned, feeling threatened, and we will look at the fire. Listen, let’s go here. Let’s go here right now, okay, matthew 16. Let’s look at this real quick. I think that’s where I want to go. Hold on, wait a minute, no, no, no.

Matthew 24. Matthew 24 prophesies the words of Jesus of the end of the age. Okay, go take me just a second, because this was not planned. So, if you look at Matthew 24, so Matthew 24, 7. That’s where it is, matthew 24, 7. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars. You will see them and not be alarmed. But these things must happen, for the end is still to come.

Okay, national rising its nation, kingdom against kingdom, there will be famines and earthquakes in various places, and all of these are the beginning of the birth pains. Okay, go back to Romans 8. The labor pains of creation. All of creation is groaning for the unveiling of the sons of God. These things will take place, but do not be alarmed, because these are the beginning of the labor pains.

What did Elijah experience? Elijah experienced these elements the earthquakes, the wind, the fire, all of these things. But what did God say? I was not in those things. He said come up here. Revelation 4. Come up here, Elijah, sit with me. Come up here and be seated in my realm. See, he’s going to send him back out and he’s going to take his mantle that he just wrapped on his face and he’s going to anoint Elijah, the next generation.

It’s not over. We’re going to prepare, as though it is, if we read all of Matthew 24, we’re going to prepare for the coming of the Lord. He’s coming, but we’re not going to draw back into our caves of fear. We are women who are whole. You’re going to be mentally strong. You’re going to be physically strong. You’re going to be spiritually strong. You’re going to know how to sit with the Lord. You’re going to know how to prepare.

In that, proverbs 31, woman, she’s preparing. She gets up while it’s still night. Listen, she’s preparing in the dark time for the light that has come. She’s also preparing for when there is no more light, when the darkness comes. She’s living in constant, in this constant place of connection with the Lord. It’s not about her physical realm. She has a divine intuition about her that she knows how to get up and feed and prepare. Listen, it says that she had made servants. I believe she had the women whom she was discipling, who they were working together in her home. Yes, they were servants of hers. But I believe that this woman was discipling women. She was preparing to feed them in when it was still dark so that in the day her children would be taken care of, her family would be taken care of, she could go survey a field and she was going to buy it, because she laughs without fear of the future.

And so we’re going to live in the state of preparation, but not enter into the spirit of fear. We’re going to retrain our hearts and our minds because, as you have intuition, you will pick up on everything, but you’re going to retrain your heart and mind to not pick up on all the chatter of the earth, though it will be signs to come of his coming. They, it is true, it is real, it is the signs of this coming, but you’re going to know that it is actually the groan of all creation for the sons and daughters of God to stand in their rightful place and pull the kingdom of heaven into the earth in the hour crisis to anoint the next generation Church. You ever underestimate the power of the season that you’re in If you’re a young mom, pouring into your children, preparing food for them, preparing food for your husband, loving on your husband, your grandchildren, the children that are around you in church, the young ones. Do not neglect or misunderstand the beauty of that season where you’re wrapping your mantle around a generation, preparing them for the very thing that could be the hour at which the Lord would return. Listen, you have no idea the power that you walk in as a woman.

We’re going to go back over here, and so if we look at this, the still small voice, it’s not simply a whisper. It’s the Lord breathing and drawing us into another realm, away from the rage of the nations. Psalm 2,. Why did the nations rage? Why do my peoples plot in vain? Ask of me and I’ll give you the nations as your inheritance. He laughs. He laughs at the rage of the nations. This voice, this realm, this whisper, this calling is to put within you a literal joy. When the rest of the world is literally writhing in fear and in pain, he’s putting the word in your mouth to give his son his rightful inheritance through you as a mom, as a wife, as a woman, as an influencer in the nations, to be able to draw in the Lamb’s reward of his suffering.

Do not misunderstand or neglect to understand the power of the one or two that is seated in front of you and so if you look down I talked about this a little bit in the notes there’s a pause as you reposition yourself to hear and operate from this realm. When the Lord begins to pause things around you do not misunderstand what he’s doing there’s going to be a holy hush that’s going to wash over us. It’s going to feel like everything’s stopped. Do not fear, for he is repositioning your heart and your ears to be fully prepared. He’s restoring Shabbat all over the world in this hour. He’s restoring Shalom all over the world in this hour. Be speaking peace and safety in your soul, when all of the earth is saying you are not safe, there is no peace.

Listen, wars, rumors of wars, famine, listen, famine. I told my husband this the other day Famine will not touch us. It’s the oil in the wine. But touch, not the oil in the wine. We do not have to be afraid. He literally listen, we’re talking about meat shortages right now. He owns the cattle on a thousand heels. That’s for his children.

Now, don’t get me wrong. Suffering plays a part in releasing the glory, because it forms glory in us, it forms trust in us. Do not misunderstand me, it’s the both and in this season. But he promises I’ve never seen his seed forsaken I mean the righteous forsaken, or his seed begging bread. But do we believe that? And I told my husband this the other day I believe the reason that even Israel experienced famine is because they did not believe. They turned to idolatry. They started believing in the idols of the land over Yahweh. If we can just believe that he is who he says he is, we will not have to be afraid. And even now, like I feel like, even as I say that, like some people are like but, but, but, but, but but we need to remove the but so that we can be where we’ve been called to be. He did not place us in this hour by accident. He knew what he was doing.

A spiritual son of mine sent me a dream, I don’t know, four years ago, three or four years ago, and he and I were in Israel and we had superpowers and it was literally the end of the age. It was literally like all the things in the book of Revelation were happening and he and I had these superpowers where we could literally like, we didn’t have to worry about food, we were translated in different places, we could put people out, we can. You know, it’s like all the things, maybe like all the Marvel movies, I don’t know All these supernatural powers, but in the dream, when the powers that became, we had to actually put on our basically in a veil over us in order to hide the glory or hide the powers, so that we could continue to bring salvation or bring deliverance to the people, because we didn’t need to be arrested. It was not yet our time. Right and see, I believe this is what the Lord is going to do, as the nation’s rage and plot in vain. The Lord himself raises a standard and he draws his people into a greater revelation of him and if we believe, if we will agree with him touching anything, if we will talk about him, if we will glorify him, he drops into that conversation and into that gathering of one or two, or two or more, and he begins to manifest the greatest powerful deliverance that the world has ever seen. But it doesn’t look like what we thought it was going to look like. Sometimes it might look like just being hidden in him and two or more. It may not and probably will not look like massive platform.

Ministry. You may have a massive, massive, mighty call in your life and never have a microphone in your hand. You were. You were born for such a time as this. You were born to bring deliverance to captives. You were born to heal the sick. You were born to raise up children into the ways of the Lord, so you can launch them. I believe, in the days to come, all of these platform stuff is really not going to matter. I’m thankful for it because I’m able to talk to you right now all over the world through the internet.

But listen, this is not the main thing. Many of you watching me right now. You have the ability to step into the fullness that God has called you to, but you are waiting on someone to hand you a microphone or invite you to speak, and the Lord is saying no, come up here. I got to show you some things because I’m going to use you in stealth mode. Did you know that the unspoken realm, have you ever noticed that God operates from hiddenness? Have you ever noticed that the angels operate from hiddenness? Have you ever noticed the Holy Spirit operates from hiddenness? Do you know what a beautiful invitation it is into the place of intercession that you can operate from hiddenness and you can literally believe God that he would use you to literally shift history and nations, with your prayers Hidden, hidden. The Lord himself is hidden and these broken vessels Chew on that for just a minute. So Matthew 16.3,.

This is actually a rebuke. But listen, he says in the morning this is what, the way that they are, they are determining what is taking place. In the morning. You say today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast. You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. That’s a rebuke. So look at Isaiah 16.19 and think about that in connection with the sky, interpreting the signs and knowing when it’s morning and when it’s night. Isaiah 16.19.

Jump over there with me. This is the hope of the future, and the sun will be no more be your light by day, nor will brightness of the moon shine on you, for the Lord will be your everlasting light and God will be your glory. The sun shall no longer be your light. So who’s your light? The sun S-O-N. The sun is our light. The sun Jesus is our guide when the fullness of time comes, those elements that cause us to know when it’s morning and when it’s evening and when the storm is coming and when the earthquakes coming and when the famines coming and when all the things.

Listen, you don’t have to be on the internet or on Twitter or Facebook or Instagram for more than like two minutes and you everybody knows when everything is coming. But how many are actually letting the sun be their light? How many can actually interpret the times and the seasons? And Matthew, he’s rebuking them because the Messiah, the Kingdom, has come and it’s right in front of them. But they cannot see Because they’re looking at what’s in front of their faces but not what is in front of their heart, what their spirit? Listen, how did they understand that Jesus was with them after he had been resurrected? They said did our hearts not burn within us? They couldn’t recognize because they’re looking at everything else. What you feed will grow. What you starve will die. If you feed your fear, you will be full of fear. If you feed your spirit and feast on him. He’s inviting us to a table in this season. If you will feast on him and, by the way, that table is set in the presence of our enemies you will see by the light of the sun and you will not determine whether it’s morning or evening, according to what the elements or the internet says. Listen, this is our promise. So, number five, we’re going to abide in prayer and we’re not going to fear. I’ve already hit Psalm 91.5 and Proverbs 31.25.

Hebrews 11 is one of my favorite chapters. Obviously, we hear it as the faith chapter, but Hebrews 11 also talks about those who did not receive their promise. It talks about the ones that were martyred and persecuted and sawn into. They were the ones of whom the world was not worthy. But it also talks about where the weak were made strong and they escaped the edge of the sword. They shut the mouths of lions and they put foreign armies to flight. You see, the weakness that is in us, yielded fully to him. When we close off all of the things that are terrifying in the earth, in our weakness, we come to him. He makes us strong and I find it amazing, having just come from Wales and then where Reese Howells prayed during World War II, that this portion of Scripture in Hebrews 11 says that they put foreign armies to flight. Reese Howells, I’m sure during World War II they thought that was, it was over, but they prayed with divine intelligence. They heard from the Lord what to pray, how to pray, when to pray, how long to pray. And they literally saw battles like the battle at Dunkirk and different other battles. They watched the Lord move and transition and shut down foreign armies because of prayer and intercession. That was abiding in him and not in what their eyes saw. How much more did he have for us?

When we were in Wales, I was on the floor in that blue room in that place I call it the blue room where the intercession went forth. Emma I think Emma Smith’s on here Emma was with us in Wales. So much fun to Emma, so powerful. But in that place, like we’re wailing and we’re weeping and like the glories in there and we’re in the intercessions of old, like it literally felt like we were with them in their intercessions. We were taking hold of the prayers that they had prayed and we were pulling them into our generation.

And the Lord said this to me and I literally started trembling. He said, where they were praying for a war to end, your generation is praying for a war to begin. And I began to cry out and just make ready your bride, make ready your bride, make ready your bride. And that’s what he’s doing and we’re groaning and we’re weeping and we’re crying out in him, in that unspoken realm, with the wordless prayers God, would you move? Would you come and start a war in our generation that would bring forth the fullness of your glory and elevate your kingdom and show what is unshakable in this world, in this side of eternity? He’s moving, guys, but we cannot be afraid. We cannot play pray from the place of fear.

And so, at the bottom of this I’m not really sure how far I’m in time wise yeah, I think I’m right there. So I’ve got some questions for you guys. I really want you to look at this as introspection for yourself personally, and I want to tell you this I’m probably going to release a podcast next week, or maybe this week, on the sphere thing, because it’s really driving me nuts, to be honest, like the way that people are moving in fear. We cannot move in that sphere of fear. We cannot move in that sphere of fear. Let me say it again we cannot move in the sphere of fear in this hour. It will not work and it’s bothering me. It’s bothering me in my spirit, in my soul, and here’s the thing about it. He’s delivering us up out of it, and I’m probably going to do a podcast on it because it’s urgent.

But there’s a way that you have to know if you’re functioning from fear or if you’re functioning from faith, for lack of a better word. You’re functioning from the spirit. It’s by the way that you react or respond, and so we might be living in the hour of urgency, but we are never to move out of haste. If you move in haste, or if you move from reaction instead of response, that means you’ve not pulled back to listen, to wash away all the things of the earth. Listen, it’s like Jesus letting Jesus come wash your feet. You sit back and you let him wash your feet and you do not move in haste. In the hour of crisis, you do not move out of fear. Some indicators of fear physiological and emotional indicators of fear can be black and white thinking, reacting versus responding. Nejart reactions hoarding is an indicator that you’re moving from a spirit of fear. Go to the word.

When you read something or you consume something on the internet, your heart starts just beating really wildly, but not in a way of like oh, I’m in the presence of the Lord, wild or not. Oh, I’m going to groan in the spirit wild, but I’ve got to do something wild. Right, I can’t breathe wild Like we got to do something right now. Ok, we’ve got to be able to know the difference in the spirit of fear and the urgency to prepare. This is so incredibly important because we can respond by pausing and awaiting. And the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, will come in and give wisdom, but that’s not where it ends. Wisdom is the beginning. You need understanding, you need the sevenfold spirit of God. You need the power of God, the might of the Lord, you need the strength of the Lord. You want it. You need to wait on him.

I used to be, I listen, I can tell you, I used to be one of the most urgent people because I’m like, I’m a prophet blah, blah, blah. Like we got to go, we got to do this, we got to make this change. We got to know, know all of that. I may be hearing, I may be seeing, but the Lord is never pushy, he’s never hasty, he’s never worried, he’s never concerned and full of fear. He gives divine intelligence. He tells us to chew on it, wait on it. Jesus was in the earth for 30 years before he ever stepped fully into his ministry. He spent three years in it. He pours out his spirit for a bunch of people that don’t have a clue what they’re doing. To finish the work Okay, to do the work. He is not afraid. He’s not moving out of worry and fear and concern. He knows the day that he will return, he knows when he’s coming and you’re not going to be found sleeping. You’re not going to be found without watching, but you’re going to be found love-sick Instead of in worry, concern and haste, because you’re in love with him.

A love song of Solomon. I can teach that at another time, but throughout the book of song of Solomon I noticed that the bride, the sulemite I used to think she was in haste and worry. She actually just wanted to just do what she wanted to do. She knew where he was all along, even when he’s drawing her out and she endures persecution you can look at this later but she knew where he was. She knew he was in his garden. She knew he wanted her in his garden. She didn’t want to get up out of her bed when he was knocking, but she finally did so he drew her out. She knew where he was and we know that.

He knows where he is and we know that his plan is perfect. We have to believe and trust that our bridegroom loves us, cares for us, has a plan for us. And if this is not going to take him by surprise, none of it. Your moment you’re in right now does not surprise him. Your circumstances do not surprise him. If you can just be still, you will hear him, even it’s like the song. You know, all of a sudden, I’m overwhelmed, and all these afflictions are eclipsed by his glory. That’s where you will be, in the realm of the unspoken, and you’re practicing in circumstances, because times are going to get more difficult. And, yes, the famine, touch not the oil and the wine. I believe there will be famine around the earth. But what did he say? Touch not the oil and the wine. Listen to me, you have a destiny. You have, he’s got a plan for you and your children. No fearing, no fearing.

Okay, all that being said, I’m going to pray for you guys real quick and then I would like, if we have just a few minutes, I would like to answer some questions, if you guys have questions. I know this is a lot. This was deep. I’m barely scraping the surface with the unspoken and that voice of the Lord in that place of the realm of the spirit. If you have questions, I’ll try to answer them, but right now just let me pray for you in the name of Jesus.

I command every spirit of fear, all the terror, all the lies of the enemy to be silent in the name of Jesus. And I speak to your soul right now and I command it to come into alignment with the spirit of God. And I say to your soul your mind, your will and emotions, go where you belong, into the submission of the spirit of the Lord. You will not dictate the times and the seasons. And I say to your spirit come up here and come into full alignment with Christ here. See and know I’m speaking right now. I’m speaking with spiritual ears and eyes are going to be opened.

I command every other voice that is not the voice of the Lord, that is not the voice of your father, to be silent in the name of Jesus, I just speak over you right now, that you’ll begin to bear the fruit of the spirit love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control and that anxiety would no longer have a hold on you.

I command anxiety to go right now, in Jesus’ name. And I even say this, I even declare this anxiety will not have a hold on the women of this generation any longer, or the generation under us. In the name of Jesus, I command that demon from hell to submit to the blood of the Lamb in Jesus’ name and to leave every single believer right now that is watching in Jesus’ name. Fear, get out. In Jesus’ name, you will not have the first place. The presence of the Lord will have the first place in Jesus’ name. Okay, right now, when you just to proclaim that over yourself, take it and apply the blood to your family, to your children, your children are going to hear the voice of the Lord, your grandchildren are going to hear the voice of the Lord, and I declare over you peace and safety and divine intelligence in Jesus’ name.

0:55:53 – 
Thank you for listening to this episode of Burning Messengers. You don’t want to miss what’s coming next week, so if you haven’t subscribed, please do so wherever you listen to podcasts. And if this word touched your heart, please rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts. To connect with Tammy, follow her on social media or visit frontlinemfireorg. You don’t have to burn alone.


Unlock the secrets of a meaningful prayer life and discover the divine blueprint for your life. We promise you an enlightening journey into the deep mysteries of prayer and the transformative power it can have on your destiny, as guided by Psalm 139, verse 16. You’ll gain insights into the metaphorical ‘daily bread’, a sustenance that feeds our faith, and into your destiny scroll – the divine plan for your life held in heaven with your name on it. Listen as we discuss the power of free will, the choice it gives us to dwell in God’s presence or stray from His path, and the revelation it brings about the purpose of our lives. This episode is not just about prayer. It’s about spiritual warfare, the reality of it and how powerful prayer can be your ultimate weapon. It’s an invitation to deepen your relationship with God, to have the courage to ask Him about His plans for you, and to grow in your relationship with Him. Our discussion extends to the concept of destiny, the essence of your divine plan and how to unlock it through prayer. So, hop on this soul-stirring journey and rediscover God, prayer, and your divine destiny in a whole new light.

About the host:

Tammie Southerland is the host of Burning Messengers and the author of Permission To Bur: Breaking the Chains of Compromise from a Holy Generation. She is also a speaker and prophetic minister. She releases the sound authentic of revival and messages from heaven as she travels. Her lifestyle is one of prayer and digging deep into the Word of God, her desire is to releasing the Heart of The Father in these last days. She moves in power ministry and is known for releasing the Matthew 3:11 “baptism of Holy Fire” as she goes. ⁠

Buy Tammie’s Book “Permission to Burn: Breaking the Chains of Compromise from a Holy Generation” here⁠: ⁠


0:00:00 – Tammie Southerland
There’s opportunities for you, even written within the Lord’s Prayer this is how we pray your will be done on earth, as it is in heaven to come into his presence daily, asking for his daily bread. What is daily bread? It’s the sustenance or substance of faith that you hope for in its evidence of his kingdom that you’ve not fully recognized, and so you come into his presence boldly and ask him for your daily bread, which is what have you written in your book for me before I ever came to be? I want to do what you’re doing, say what you’re saying and walk out the destiny that you’ve written for me. I’m going to tell you a scripture that’s going to change your life, psalm 139, 16. Your eyes saw my unformed substance and in your book, all of my days of my life were written before there was yet one of them. That’s the amplified version. This scripture talks about your destiny scroll. There is a scroll in heaven. There’s books in heaven, in case you didn’t know, and one of them, if not more, has your name on it. You see in that book, or all of your days, that the Lord has written before one ever been in this earth. You see, this scripture alone should invite you to with him in the heavenly realms and ask him what is written in your book. If you don’t understand anything else about prayer and intercession, it’s this one thing Come boldly to the throne of grace, where you shall receive mercy and you are seated with him in heavenly places. You hear me refer to this all the time, and the reason is because I don’t think we really understand the power of prayer. We do not understand what we’ve been invited into. So why should I worry if God knows? What I need we talked about in the last podcast is being free from fear. Psalm 139, 16 tells you that he’s got a plan for you. So the question is why do I not see his plan? Why is my day not amazing? Listen, it doesn’t say every day written in his book is amazing. It says he has every one of your days written in his book. He knows your end from beginning. If you don’t do anything else with the power of prayer, it would be to sit with him and ask him what he has written for you, about you and your family, and then you take the gift that you’ve been given, called prayer and intimacy with him through the blood of the lamb, and you ask him to do what is written in his scroll. There’s opportunities for you, even written within the Lord’s prayer this is how we pray your will be done on earth, as it is in heaven, to come into his presence daily asking for his daily bread. What is daily bread? It’s the sustenance or substance of faith that you hope for in its evidence of his kingdom that you’ve not fully recognized. And so you come into his presence boldly and ask him for your daily bread. Which is what have you written in your book for me before I ever came to be? I want to do what you’re doing, say what you’re saying and walk out the destiny that you’ve written for me.

You see, here’s the beauty of free will. Free will allows you to choose daily whether or not you’re going to dwell in him, in with him and abide in him, that you’ll bear much fruit, or will you go about your own way and then have to again lean into his mercy and straighten things out and come back into alignment with him? This is the journey of walking with Christ. So there’s no condemnation when you have not known that you had a scroll in heaven with your name on it, but now you do so. Therefore, there is grace for you to begin to enter into the revelation of who you are and what he’s written for you.

You want to know what your destiny is. Your destiny, your destiny to minister to the Lord, to stand firm, minister and burn to the Lord day and night and day. Your destiny is to be an awestruck wonder of who he is. Yes, you have entrance to see and know and understand the things that no one else sees and knows and understands, this dwelling in the earth and realm. You get to abide with him above the principalities, powers and rulers of darkness of this present age. That doesn’t rule out spiritual warfare. Spiritual warfare is real, but this gives you an entrance into the place of prayer and intercession where you can know. Now you’re saying, like Tammy, I don’t know how to know. The way you learn how to know him is ask him that you may know him and ask him that you may know what is written in his book. He would not have told you if he didn’t want you to come to. This is your invitation to.

Psalm 139 16 tells you clearly that he knows you. He’s got something written or planned for you and all you have to do is ask him. Psalm 139 16 tells you that you were created with a purpose and that you matter. When there was no form, you were there and so was he. Psalm 139, 16 tells you that you were created for intercession, not just called to pray, but you were created to stand with him to bring his wheel on the earth as it is in heaven. That’s one of the disciples asked.

Jesus teaches to pray. I’m teaching you right now to pray. Your will be done on the earth as it is in heaven. This is what you say to the Lord I want to see your kingdom come. Do you know that you are part of the answer to that prayer, the kingdom.

When John the Baptist said the repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. He was saying repent for the Messiah. The kingdom is here. He’s here, and so he says he has come, died, buried, been resurrected, he has given you his spirit so that you can be able to manifest or unveil his kingdom on earth as it is in heaven. So, no matter what happens, you are the answer to your own prayers when you are dwelling with him and abiding him. As he says Abide in me and I in you. You will bear much fruit. Without me, you can do nothing. When you’re abiding in it, the vine, then you are going to bring forth him, who is the vine, into the earth.

But that can’t be done without living a lifestyle of prayer and studying of the scriptures, because the scriptures help keep you aligned so that you know that you’re hearing from the right spirit. So I read that fear right now of hearing from the wrong spirit and I even bring correction to those of you who have been a little bit too frou-fru frou, frivolous in an area where you’ve not tried to lean in on the word of God and you may be hearing from the wrong spirit. You can’t get into the ditches. The way that you know that you’re hearing from God is it love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control being released through your life. Not what you’re hearing may not feel peaceful, it may feel challenging, or it may feel convicting, or it may evoke a little fear To begin with, but you funnel that through the scriptures and through the word and you find your peace in abiding in him and trusting him. You’re developing a relationship with him. You’ve been given access to relationship, but we have to grow in that relationship, any relationship you have in your life.

I did already study one time that it takes I think it was like a total of 136 hours or something of spending time with a person to develop depth in relationship with them, and that relationship has to move from that initial place where you met, which would be like work or church or whatever, into another location, like a coffee shop, in order to deepen it, and from there a time where you spend like long hours together and talking about your heart. And with this 136 hours that it takes to truly develop depth in a relationship even needs to have a challenge, where you feel like the relationship is going to be torn apart and you, instead of running away, you draw to the relationship you have and you’ve been invited into with God. It’s very similar to that. This is a journey. Your relationship with him is grown and developed in prayer.

Again, behold, he is God, for we do not know him. That scripture means there’s so much more to know of him. But guess what? Behold, he is God and he fully knows you. He knows everything there is to know about you. He knows more about you than he knows what he’s written for you. So I want to challenge you to access your destiny Scroll today when you go into the place of prayer. When you sit with the Lord, don’t let anxiety settle in on you. Don’t let fear settle in on you, only the fear of the Lord, which is the beginning of wisdom and it’s the beginning, by the way, it begins wisdom. It’s not all wisdom. Being love sick for him is what develops the intimacy to walk in the authority of being a bride, and that’s what you’re going after.

So set apart time, consecrate yourself and expect you’re from him. It’s going to start with a whisper, just, lord, I’m in faith, coming to you and I’m asking you to show me what’s in my scroll for today. Give me the words to pray your will for my life and the lives of those that I love. That is already written in heaven into the earth, and help me to trust in you as I lean into you. It’s going to be very small things to begin with. He’s actually ordered your steps already. So you just coming to him gives him the yes, I want to walk in what you’ve ordered for today, and he’s going to do it. I believe it, I know it.

Lord, I’m asking you right now to grow people in prayer, grow them in intercession, grow them in intimacy and unveil to them who you are and who they are. And I’m asking you right now, for those that have been wayward or walked away or gone, I see like a crooked path for some of you that have walked astray or you’ve not even known how to go to the Lord. You kind of been going about your own way. You’ve been in church for a while. Those of you that I’m talking to right now just speak alignment into your life, that you would be aligned with the cause of Christ, you would be aligned with the desires of heaven, that you would begin to understand who you are and who he is. And I declare over you right now just freedom and prayer, freedom and intercession, freedom, freedom and walking in him and divine understanding.

Some of these things I’m saying you don’t understand. The Lord will unveil it to you. I don’t have to explain it to you. Go to him. He loves it when you ask him questions. So thank you so much for joining me again here. Tammy Sutherland, burning Messengers podcast. This has been a little prophetic teaching for you, to cause you to come closer and deeper and to know him more. Go to your destiny scroll, ask him what’s in it and walk in that daily bread. Walk in the bread that he gives you for today, in Jesus name.

0:12:01 –
Amen. Thank you for listening to this episode of Burning Messengers. You don’t want to miss what’s coming next week. So if you haven’t subscribed, please do so wherever you listen to podcasts. And if this word touched your heart, please rate and review the show on Apple podcasts. To connect with Tammy, follow her on social media or visit You don’t have to burn alone.