Divine Calling: Elevating Women in Ministry with Dr. Jamie Morgan

Transcript

0:00:00 – Jaime Morgan
I would say that we have to have when we’re studying the Word of God on any topic. We have to have the discernment to be able to distinguish between a universal principle in the Word of God versus a specific situation that needed to be corrected.

0:00:23 – Tammie Southerland
Hi and welcome back to The Burning Messengers. We have a powerful show for you. If you’re a woman and you’ve ever had a desire to serve the Lord in any capacity of ministry, you need to stay with us. Through this whole entire interview, we’re gonna talk about some of the difficult questions. We’re gonna talk about what it is that causes women to maybe pull back and not step out into their God-given call. My guest today is her name is Dr Jamie Morgan, and she has written a powerful book called Her Calling Jamie. Thank you so much for joining me on this show. Your message is so vital right now for women and I can’t wait for you to share and really stoke the fire in the hearts of those women that are listening today and the guys that wanna understand how to get behind their girls, how to get behind their wives and their daughters to step into their calling. So, jamie, thank you so much for being here.

0:01:18 – Jaime Morgan
Tammy, thank you so much for having me, and I honor you, you mighty woman of God. I thank you for everything you do for the Lord, and thank you for allowing me to be on your show today.

0:01:30 – Tammie Southerland
Absolutely, guys. Jamie and I connected at a conference that was really multifaceted. It was communicators, and some of them were spirit-filled girls and some of them weren’t Some of them really. Honestly. Jamie may not really understood fully their calling, but Jamie and I ended up sitting at the table beside each other and it was like fireworks.

You know and so thankful that I got to be there because it’s like you know, jamie, when I met you, i was like man, this is a woman after my own heart Like her heart is burning in the same way as mine, and first thing I thought is we need women like this, to call women in my age group and younger out, and that’s what you do, like you’re a trailblazer. You have a ministry called Trailblazers, and so I’m excited to hear more about that. But what really put that? what was that for you? What put that on your heart to really set the stage to blaze the trail for women and it’s mentoring right. So, like, what started that in you?

0:02:34 – Jaime Morgan
So what happened was I have stood in a lot of different ministry roles. I have been a teacher of the word, an evangelist. I was a senior pastor for 15 years and the last two years that I was a senior pastor I could feel the grace lifting to pastor, and you know, we know, that what we do is only by the grace of God, like for sure, for sure, for sure.

But when the grace begins to lift, like you know, it’s only by the grace of God And at the same time that grace was lifting to pastor a local church, another grace was descending And for a while I was like God what are you doing? What are you calling me to do? What is the new? I knew that my departure as senior pastor was on the horizon, but didn’t know what the next season was gonna look like, and I always describe it like I felt like I was tumbling down Niagara Falls in a barrel, not knowing which end was up.

Transition in ministry can be very hard. Our lives are lived in seasons and there’s a reason for every season in transition. The whole way of transition connects those seasons. So one day, tammy, i was again, once again God, what are you doing? What is the new? And God gave me, he encountered me with my call for this season and, until I take my last breath, through a vision. And in the vision I saw a harvest field And it was a harvest field Like.

We’ve all seen pictures of harvest fields. We even may have them hanging in our office or our homes. This was the most beautiful harvest field I had ever seen. It was lush, it was lavish, it was ripe and it went on as far as the eye could see. And then part two of the vision God zoomed in. It’s like you can zoom in with your video camera, your camera phone, and I saw a specific harvest field. And in this harvest field, in this part two of the vision, i see, tammy, these round black discs, intermittently placed in the harvest, in the harvest field, and I said, god, what are they? They were about the size of a baseball base and they were every so often. And the Lord said those are placeholders.

0:04:57 – Tammie Southerland
That.

0:04:57 – Jaime Morgan
I placed in the harvest field before the foundation of the world, and he said they are reserved for laborers. And he said, and I could, tammy, you know how, when God imparts his heart to you, you can just feel. I could feel the grief in God’s heart. And the Lord said to me. he said, and as you can see, most of the placeholders reserved for those for laborers remain vacant. Wow. And then he spoke these words to me.

He said there is an urgency of the hour. And he said I need all hands on deck, both male as well as female. And then he gave me my mandate. He said I have called you to identify, gather, mobilize and mentor Women called to the ministry to take their place in the end time harvest of souls, in whatever their area of ministry specialization is. And we’re, all you know, we’re all so different in what God has called us to do, whether it’s behind the pulpit or it’s to raise up an online ministry or to raise up a marketplace ministry, the women I mentor. their callings are so varied and different from each other.

And so I was like, wow, God, that wasn’t. Honestly. I I’ve always, I’ve always been comfortable working with men. To be honest with you.

0:06:30 – Tammie Southerland
A lot of us feel that way. It’s funny.

0:06:32 – Jaime Morgan
I was in corporate America And so I was, like many times, the only woman in the boardroom. And then, as a senior pastor, i went to minister meetings and I was usually well, i was the first Female senior pastor in my denomination and the is that was a God in the state of New Jersey, and so I was always the only woman and I said really, god? and he said yeah, he’s, and he was like, he imparted to me the urgency of the hour And so I said yes, lord, to your will and to your way.

0:07:03 – Tammie Southerland
And that’s when I planned my departure from the church and I began planning Trailblazer mentoring network to mentor women called to the ministry So powerful, and the funny thing about that is is I’ve heard this story so many times, or recently was in an interview with the Haviland Ford. You know it’s a similar conversation. I, you know, never thought God was gonna call me into women’s ministry and here I am. You know, it seems to be something that the Lord’s doing right now, with powerful women Who are already in ministry and pivoting us back towards, looking at one another and saying, listen, it’s time to mentor, it’s time to raise up and it’s time to send out, and and he’s got his eye on his daughters, and so it’s such a beautiful, powerful thing.

I love the imagery of the harvest field and the placeholders, and that’s one of the reasons you wrote this book is to bring women into the place, to knowing that they are called. But you know, it seems like there’s an issue with the, i guess, a belief system of if we are called, you know, how do we walk in it? or, and are we really called? There’s so many scriptures that we feel like are used to say women aren’t supposed to be in ministry. Jamie, how do you respond to that kind of question? And you know what’s your desire, especially with writing your book and mentoring women to get them past that stronghold.

0:08:29 – Jaime Morgan
Yeah, that is such a good question. Those scriptures and first Corinthians and first Timothy are used by Naysayers, critics, opposers to women in ministry, and they hurl those two scriptures at us like stones To try to stone us to death. So that we will, yeah, with with the intention that we will not answer our call. And To that I say first of all, every woman called to the ministry needs to develop her own personal Theology of women in ministry. Like, if you don’t have that, i agree, if you don’t have that deep in your heart, you will always have some type of hesitancy or tentativeness. Or, you know, if, like, if you don’t know, then then the people around you aren’t going to be sure. And so that’s step one, not for anybody else other than you, really. And then having the discernment to know When to answer the critics and when not to mm-hmm, because there are some people that will ask the word

really Yeah, they really like, they really want to know. Like they, maybe they would grew up in a maybe a Calvinistic type church setting that did not allow women to answer the call of God in their lives and and maybe they’re genuinely wanting to know like, show me the scriptures and So you know, in those cases where I’m discerning, the person’s heart really wants to know, i will sit down with them and have a Bible study and show them. We take the full counsel of God Into consideration when developing, when developing our, our doctrinal belief system, not just pulling two scriptures out and basing our entire theology on that.

Yes so And and the other. But most people that that ask are really Oh, how can I say this? They just want to argue. They want to argue for the sake of arguing, that’s true. And so my response, my response to them is you know what You sit down and argue like with yourself and I’m gonna go out and win souls. That’s so good because, honestly, like I tell people They think that they’re theologians, they’re like they hurl those two scriptures that I mentioned earlier at us and it’s, it’s like this. It’s like going to the famous amusement park. Okay, you go to the famous amusement park and you only visit the hot dog stand and stroller rental. And then you come home from your vacation at that famous amusement park and you say, oh, i know that amusement park inside and out And I’m an expert in all things. Famous amusement park. That’s what it’s like when you pull those two scriptures out and to try to use it against women of God.

0:11:22 – Tammie Southerland
Yep, and this is a question that I have for you When we’re talking about this, i know personally, for years I wrestled with this in my heart because I personally wanted to be right. I wanted to be pure before the Lord. I didn’t want to be right. I want to be righteous, right. I want to be pure before the Lord. I wanted to walk out, whatever his calling was, and I grew up in one of those backgrounds And so I wrestled through those things And I think a lot of women and men both wrestled through them.

What is your response to a woman, or even her husband, that’s sitting there right now and says you know, i hear what you’re saying, jamie, but help us to get past this religious stronghold in our minds, because I really want to launch my wife or I want to launch out, but these things are screaming in my face and every time I step out, it seems like those stones are getting hurled at me. How do you respond to that? Those that are actually hungry because, yes, a lot are just wanting to have an argument, a lot are just wanting to throw stones. But what do you say to those who are like I really am just trying to find the truth. I know who God is, i know his character, i know the word, but I just seem to keep hitting this wall.

0:12:40 – Jaime Morgan
Yeah, that’s good. I would say that we have to have when we’re studying the word of God on any topic. We have to have the discernment to be able to distinguish between a universal principle in the word of God versus a specific situation that needed to be corrected at that time in the scripture. So this, for example, the scriptures that I made reference to in 1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy. They are scriptures that say you know, women should be quiet, women shouldn’t teach. You know women, you know, just ask your husbands the questions, et cetera.

That was a specific situation that went on at a specific church and it wasn’t a universal principle. That would be like me. Let me give you this analogy I walk into my local church on Sunday morning and I stopped at the convenience store. I have a cup of coffee in my hand and I sit down and I’m clumsily trying to set up Here. I get my Bible and I knock the coffee over and it’s all over the rug, i mean, and after the service the pastor takes me aside and he says, jamie, could you not bring coffee into the sanctuary anymore, because you just left the stain on the rug, like that would be like making a doctrine.

0:14:01 – Tammie Southerland
Like no more coffee, like turning that into a doctrine, yeah.

0:14:04 – Jaime Morgan
Right until Jesus returns, in any church all around the world. Yeah, yeah, it’s taking specific situations that happened in that moment. And it’s interesting, paul the apostle wasn’t in those passages. He wasn’t making women taboo, women in ministry taboo, he was making heresy taboo. He was making disorder taboo. And so we have to have a discernment to say is this a universal principle or was this a specific congregation, a group of women coming in teaching false doctrine, heresy?

that you know, of course false teachers can be men or women and they need to be shut down, and that’s what Paul was doing, And it’s something else that’s interesting. The scripture that says women need to be silent, just silent, just silent in the church, I think about that passage is in 1 Corinthians. In 1 Corinthians as well, there are two other be silent scriptures. Be silent those that speak in tongues and those that prophesy. Now we know that speaking in tongues, and prophecy and all the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today.

0:15:19 – Tammie Southerland
Right.

0:15:20 – Jaime Morgan
We know that for today. But Paul the apostle was keeping order in the church, Like it’s already been three messages, that’s enough. You know, or you know, and so be silent. in 1 Corinthians was about tongues, prophecy and women, And he was correct, something that was happening in that moment. using so that we can use it as a guide. Do not keep God as a God of order. keep order. And yeah, false teachers had to be shut down, but God. but Paul the Apostle was not shutting down women in ministry, He was shutting down heresy.

0:15:56 – Tammie Southerland
Right, yeah, and even before you know he says that, where we see that be silent scripture, he’s actually encouraging everyone to speak in tongues and everyone to prophesy. Exactly Something that’s often misunderstood is the context of that.

0:16:14 – Jaime Morgan
It’s a context. Taking scripture out of context and making an isolated scripture a specific situation in a specific church at a specific space of time, basing your doctrine upon it. And listen. The enemy, let’s face it, let’s be real in some circles, in some denominations and some churches has been successful at shutting down the women. Yeah, because of these doctrines of demons. You know, really, i mean listen, listen. If I were the devil and I wanted to stop the gospel from being preached, what would I do? I would tell not half, not half. Two thirds. Women comprised two thirds of the church. I would tell the women they can’t preach.

0:17:03 – Tammie Southerland
So there you go.

0:17:04 – Jaime Morgan
Like, there it is.

0:17:06 – Tammie Southerland
That’s good. That’s good In your book actually, I think it’s J Lee Grady’s introduction, and he talks about the women in China and the number. I can’t remember the number you’ll have to remind me. I don’t know. Five thousand a day, I don’t know. You have to remind me of the number, Thousands upon thousands, upon thousands of souls being saved in China and the underground church and the women that are leading the underground church. And J Lee Grady makes the statement while the women in China are underground winning souls, we’re still over here in America, in the West, fighting over whether or not they can speak.

0:17:41 – Jaime Morgan
There it is. Isn’t that the truth? I mean, it’s so true Women I think about, you know, in South Korea. South Korea used to have the largest church in the world and it was. It was women driven. It was women that were released to be self-church pastors or house church pastors. I mean, where women are released to do ministry, you will see revival.

0:18:04 – Tammie Southerland
Yeah, well, that leads me to the next question here. So where we see women in ministry, we see revival. Why do you think that is? I think I know why, but why do you think women are going to birth revival? Like what is it that we carry? that’s so different.

0:18:21 – Jaime Morgan
Yeah, you know, it’s interesting. when I went to Israel I’ve been there twice and I was talking to our tour guide on the last trip and he was, he was teaching about modern-day shepherds, you know, like shepherds that exist today, where they’re actually taking care of sheep and a pasture, and he says he says we have found that women make the best shepherds, he said because they carry their both. he was unsaved. So he said they’re both feisty and loving. They carry a fire, the fire of God, but they also know how to love and show compassion and bind up wounds and the combination, you know, we’ll set the captives free, yeah.

0:19:06 – Tammie Southerland
And I would add this the womb of prayer. Yes, i believe that there is a certain. There’s a certain type of intercession, a groaning intercession And you know this is my topic I love to talk about But there’s a groaning intercession within the womb of a woman of being able to feel and sense and discern and nurture what God is doing in the earth for a particular generation, and that’s a motherhood. I believe it’s a motherhood type of DNA, spiritual DNA that causes our hearts to be gripped with the feelings of God and the longings of God And then thereby looking at children, looking at a generation that is without him, and actually identifying with that kind of travail, like a woman in labor. And I think those things all work together. And I just I throw that out there because you talk about prayer in your book and you believe so strongly in a woman who’s called an ministry. Honestly, anybody I know we’re targeting women right now developing this prayer life. Yeah, why is that prayer life so important?

0:20:21 – Jaime Morgan
Yeah, it’s so important because and I tell women, that’s your first step, you want to take a first step to ministry. It’s your individual prayer life and asking those around you about forming an intercessory prayer shield. It’s important because it’s prayer is the immune system of the body of Christ, it’s the immune system of our ministry, it’s the immune system of our lives. And so when we know in the natural, when someone has a strong, robust immune system, they can stave off disease before they even have symptom one. That bad cell or that virus or you know whatever bad bacteria can just be eradicated before you even know. You didn’t even know you’re sick. But when our immune system is weak, we can get everything that comes along the pike, things that we wouldn’t normally be open to. We are open to everything And that I liken the immune system of the human body to the intercessory prayer system of your life, your minister, your family, your church. So that is step one for any woman that feels that she has a call of God on her life. And I want to just add to that that the Lord spoke to me a couple of years before I was in the ministry, before he launched me, i should say, through a prophet.

A prophet came to my church and she said Jamie, she said God is getting ready to launch you and you need to ask him for intercessors. And I was like, ok, ok, i was kind of a new revelation to me, back all those decades ago. And so I said God, i don’t even know who to ask, but I ask you that you would, you know, start with one person. And you would, you would, you would speak to her heart. And a couple of weeks later, in in church, this woman named Joanne walks up to me and she said God, he encountered me in a dream And in the dream he said Jamie, morgan, is your prayer assignment until you take your last breath? And it was like it’s even God speaks it, there’s no getting around it. Like, yes, god sometimes has us approach people, and that’s of him as well. But he literally started and now I have a intercessory prayer team. She is now my lead intercessor, but now she trains intercessors to pray for me in my ministry.

0:22:42 – Tammie Southerland
Yeah, that’s, that is such a blessing. And, jamie, you’ve become that for me. I’m honored, i am honored, i am honored.

0:22:51 – Jaime Morgan
I am honored.

0:22:52 – Tammie Southerland
I am so thankful for that. I will tell you, this lady decided that she was going to take me on as a prayer assignment because she saw how bad I needed it, and it is such a blessing. And so, guys, it’s both and it’s. You have to develop your own prayer life, like you have to become one who sits with him in the heavenly realms. You aren’t going to minister to anybody if you’re not ministering to God. What are you going to do?

Like and Jamie, i think this is one of the fallacies of ministry across the board is we get excited and we think, oh, god’s called me to ministry, you want to get in front of people, but we’ve not really allowed the knowledge of God to get into our own DNA.

And and as I’m just like speaking right now, but those that are watching, those that are listening, this message, this podcast, is for you guys, the burning messengers. God’s raising you up as a voice, but I can’t ever emphasize enough how important it is that you live in love with him, love sick for him, getting your revelation that you’re delivering to others in your bones first before you release it to anybody else, because it’s for you. And that’s so important, jamie, as people begin to step out and, as God is like raising up these places that you said you saw the space holders in the harvest field. How would you encourage them? right now? I just want you to take a few minutes to to really just speak to the audience, to pray for them, to encourage them to share prophetically even anything that’s on your heart.

0:24:28 – Jaime Morgan
Yeah, I would love to, first of all, ladies and men who are called of the Lord, i encourage you to rip off the rearview mirror of your past. I hear so many say, oh, but God can’t use me, i feel so unworthy. All these excuses. We all have a past and we’re all. We all. We all needed the. We all needed Jesus to save us from our sins. And so rip off that rearview mirror and focus on the worth of Jesus. Yeah, see, if we’re walking around saying I’m so unworthy, we don’t have a revelation of the worth of Jesus And our eyes are on ourselves and not on him. And so camp out in scriptures that talk about the worth of Jesus. Let that revelation renew your mind with that, with those scriptures, and let it become a deep heart revelation. And I want to say that so many women and men but I’m going to speak to women right now are on the sidelines. I just see some women on the sidelines of letting distractions get in the way of what you know. You already know what God has called you to do, but this comes up and that comes up and you feel like you’re on a hamster wheel, the hamster wheel of life, and you’re in survival mode. And the Lord is saying to you take a good look at the people you’ve surrounded yourself with which is, by the way, very huge And also the things you’re allowing in your life to cause distractions from God’s ultimate purpose, because I live my life from a place of no regret. Now, i’m going to have plenty of them. I mean, we all are, we’re going to have regrets, but I try to live my life from a place of having as few as possible, and the biggest, biggest, biggest regret of all for me would be to graduate to heaven and have Jesus say did you reach the people I’ve called you to reach? Did you pray the prayers I’ve called you to pray? Did you say the things I’ve called you to say? Did you go to places I’ve called you to go to? And then I pull one excuse out of my back pocket after the next as to why I didn’t. Well, i was too afraid, jesus. I died for that. Well, Jesus, i didn’t have the money. I died for that. Well, jesus, i was too depressed, i couldn’t get out of bed. I died for that. Well, jesus, it doesn’t matter what excuses. And so I want to say to every woman listening and watching rise up, rise up from the sidelines of apathy, rise up from the sidelines of offense, rise up from the injured players list, rise up from the place of woundedness, rise up from the place of fear and the place of depression.

There is a old songwriter, years ago, keith Green, and he had this in his song. He said Jesus rose from the dead and you can’t even get out of bed. Rise up, rise up, rise up. Either we believe in the resurrection of Jesus or we don’t. Either we believe God is Jehovah Jireh or we don’t. Either we believe he’s Jehovah Rafa or we don’t, or Jehovah Nisi or we don’t.

And so rise up, woman of God, and begin to walk in what you might kind of sort of think, perhaps that God has called you to do, and, as you do, listen a rock that is rolling is easier to navigate than a boulder that’s stationary. You will never find your call or walk in the fullness of your call, sitting on your couch with a remote control in one hand, a tub of popcorn in the other, binge watching Netflix, even if you’re seeking Jesus. Jesus, tell me what I’m called to do, which we should see, jesus, obviously, but until we put our hand to the plow and start doing something and start maybe it’s children’s ministry. I’m not called. My ultimate calling wasn’t to children, but for years I did children’s ministry. Because guess what, tammy? There was some things that those babies in the nursery needed to teach me, like faithfulness. Like when you’re faithful with the little, god will give you much. Like a servant’s heart. Like showing up when you don’t feel like it. Like being just faithfulness. And so rise up, women of God.

0:28:51 – Tammie Southerland
Wow, that is so good. I love everything you just said. I felt my heart was burning. Guys, i know that if you’re listening, if you’re watching, right now, if you’re staying through this thing with us, you are getting ignited. You are actually getting activated right now, whether you realize it or not, and God is putting His finger on certain things. You’ve had excuses and right now they just got torched. In case you didn’t realize it, your excuses just got set on fire And it’s beautiful.

And as Jamie was talking, i thought the number one issue that we have is a spirit of religion, and all these arguments and all these stones that are hurled to keep anyone back from doing what God created us to do, and that is to release the Great Commission, to do what He said to do to go into all the world and preach the good news.

The number one hindrance that you have is a spirit of religion, and I think, right now, god wants to deliver you from that, jamie. I think God wants to deliver some people from the spirit of religion that has kept them, kept and kept them bound, and I just declare to you right now that thing is breaking off of your life and clarity is coming to you And all of the trauma associated with religious boxes. Religious confusion is being broken right now and being healed, and I declare to you right now that your ears are going to get you here, your eyes are going to see and you’re going to step into who you are, and it’s not going to be rebellious, because the Holy Spirit doesn’t rebel against Himself. I’ve heard that so many times, jamie, i don’t want to be rebellious. Well, holy Spirit doesn’t rebel against Himself.

0:30:22 – Tammie Southerland
Yes.

0:30:22 – Tammie Southerland
Live a lifestyle of prayer and in the word and you’re going to align with Him. Stop being afraid and step out of the boat and be who He’s called you to be. And I also want to say this it doesn’t necessarily have to look like a platform. It can be you being in the business realm. It could be you being at home with your kids. It could be it takes different phases and different seasons throughout your life. Being in ministry looks like being in Him and letting Him flow through you.

0:30:52 – Jaime Morgan
Yes, amen, amen, amen.

0:30:56 – Tammie Southerland
Jamie, this has just been. It’s been incredible to have you here with us. Guys, i want you to get your hands on this book. Her calling a woman’s guide to fulfilling her God-given destiny Eat it up. She’s got some amazing, incredible things in here. She starts out this book with affirming all the fears, all the hurts, all the broken places. She speaks directly to those things And, jamie, i want you to know I teared up reading that first chapter of that book as you just began to speak into those pains and in repentance For all the things that have taken place.

I began to tear up and my soul began to get healed in places, and so thank you so much for doing that Tell us we’re going to put all the links in the description below, but tell us how we can get in touch with you and yeah, that kind of thing.

0:31:52 – Jaime Morgan
Yeah, so you can access my mentoring website. My network again is trailblazer mentoring network. The website is trailblazermentoringcom. Trailblazermentoring.com. I would love, i would be honored to mentor, to mentor you into whatever you’re calling is, and my book her calling a woman’s guide to fulfilling her God-given destiny can be purchased and through Amazon or anywhere books are sold.

0:32:23 – Tammie Southerland
Awesome, awesome, all right. Thank you, jamie, for joining us. Thank you all your burning messengers, for coming on and being a part of our culture, a part of our podcast. We want to encourage you to that. We want you to see you equipped, we want to see you sent, we want to see you living a lifestyle where you’re thriving and you’re burning. And so remember you don’t have to burn alone. There’s others out there like you that want to know who they are. You just got to find your people. Thank you so much for joining us again and we’ll see you next time.

0:32:59
Thank you for listening to this episode of burning messengers. You don’t want to miss what’s coming next week. So if you haven’t subscribed, please do so wherever you listen to podcasts. And if this word touched your heart, please rate and review the show on Apple podcasts. To connect with Tammy, follow her on social media or visit frontlinefire.org. You don’t have to burn alone.